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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!  (Read 35985 times)

Lonewolf I

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
« Reply #120 on: August 03, 2010, 06:28:29 am »

Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {1} Rube
Bandages - {1} Vector
Scatterbrain - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {2} Bandages, Toaster
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Scatterbrain, Ottofar, Thendash, USEC_OFFICER

Five extensions heard.  Day extended.
Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.

magwebster is being forcereplaced due to inactivity.
Scatterbrain has been pmed an offer to take his place.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 06:17:36 pm by Lonewolf I »
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Scatterbrain

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #121 on: August 03, 2010, 07:03:51 am »

yeah, I'll be happy to take the guys place. gonna go look through the tread now, will hopefully return with a vote.
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Scatterbrain

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #122 on: August 03, 2010, 07:12:50 am »

vector: a while back, you were asked which people you felt posed most of a threat as scum. a simple question that could have been given a simple answer - maybe whoever you felt were the two or three most dangerous and some basic reasons why - but you took the opportunity to post a fully-blown analysis of everyone in the game. why so?
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Rube

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #123 on: August 03, 2010, 07:25:05 am »

Scatterbrain: What do you think of the town's position at this early point? Who do you feel is handicapping town?
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Scatterbrain

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #124 on: August 03, 2010, 07:42:13 am »

Scatterbrain: What do you think of the town's position at this early point? Who do you feel is handicapping town?

while this is a newbie game, there are two or three players with some experience among us. it makes sense that such experience is more nebulous when playing a townie role that it is playing mafia, so comparatively speaking the town is likely to be in the more vulnerable position until the newbies get a feel for what's going on.

i think i've already made the suggestion that vector is very keen to get her opinions out into the open in such a way that the inexperienced among us could easily be swayed by her, more experienced, logic (if you like to call it that). it's perfectly possible that townies are being swayed in the wrong direction by this, and if it's not a handicap, then it is, at the least, a danger to them.
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Toaster

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #125 on: August 03, 2010, 08:17:49 am »

Vector:  Since you specifically called lurkers "scumbuckets", that makes 5 players you just called scummy.  You're awfully eager to spread suspicion around.  I'm all in favor of following multiple leads, but you look like you're just casting doubt.  Do you really think the three you called inactive are that scummy?

Bandages:  Share this:

Not sure yet. I have a few gut feelings, but nothing solid yet.

Let's hear them.  Better yet, go question the person and get them to talk.  How else are we going to get scum to slip up?  Sit here and wait for them?

You never answered me.
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Bandages

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2010, 09:16:08 am »

Well, Toaster, right now the people I see as the most suspicious are USEC and Vector.

USEC has said a few scummy things but it hasn't been too bad. Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

And unvote
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Vector

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2010, 11:03:22 am »

It also seems like you're redirecting us to lurkers, and away from the guy who's currently on the stage (i.e. USEC_OFFICER).

I asked USEC_OFFICER my questions, and my vote still rests on him.

I'm curious about this 'stage' though... I wasn't aware there was there was a stage we should all be concentrating on. I've been persuing my own investigations. You seem unhappy that attention is being turned away from USEC_OFFICER.

Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.


You, sir, are sidelining.  I also feel like you're sitting here manipulating the crowd (as in your "what do you think about Vector?  Isn't she just the scummiest?!" post).

Are you mad that I accused you of being scummy?

Nope.  I think that you're sidelining and crowd-directing, as noted above.


vector: a while back, you were asked which people you felt posed most of a threat as scum. a simple question that could have been given a simple answer - maybe whoever you felt were the two or three most dangerous and some basic reasons why - but you took the opportunity to post a fully-blown analysis of everyone in the game. why so?

Because they asked me a question, and that is the only way that I am capable of answering that question.  When there is no available data, you must retrieve data--so I did.  It is also necessary to explain reasoning and cite sources.  You cannot find the "largest threat" if you have not evaluated the threat level of each individual, and made a solid attempt at analyzing the known body of information.

I love information: retrieving it, classifying it, redigesting it for common use.  To be sure, I could have just chewed up the data for myself and given out a simple answer, but that would be withholding what I knew to no good end.  In this game, the written trail of the past provides rails for the future.  An individual must leave a legacy.

... Or, for a different sort of answer, less full of intellectual wankery, it was an attempt to provoke reactions.  I told each player what I thought of him or her at the beginning of the game (do correct me if I'm wrong about your gender, by the way).  The result is that a lot of people are calling me scum because I called them naive or difficult to teach, which... well, though amusing, it wasn't the intended result.  If only a couple were getting angry/scared/defensive/whatever, I'd have some leads (scum tend to be far more emotionally labile than town).  As-is, though, I have to start testing more reactions and so on.


Vector:  Since you specifically called lurkers "scumbuckets", that makes 5 players you just called scummy.  You're awfully eager to spread suspicion around.  I'm all in favor of following multiple leads, but you look like you're just casting doubt.  Do you really think the three you called inactive are that scummy?

They're engaging in scummy behavior, yeah, and if they don't shape up then the late game is going to be really hard to sort through.  Meh.  When people are doing something "wrong," I dog them until they do it right.  In this case, there's a lot of people doing things wrong, and I really wish they would stop so I could sort things out.


Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

[citation needed].  What's scummy about making large posts, and what about their contents do you find problematic?
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Rube

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2010, 11:26:03 am »

Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Source, please. Also, read my response to Bandages here (the response to the second quote, specifically).

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.

That tactic is terrible. Having individuals be grilled systematically by the town is predictable, and keeps the pressure on only one person (who is statistically unlikely to be scum). I'll stick to my tactics, thank you.

Also, I haven't tried to 'slide a mountain of votes' onto anyone. I haven't even moved my own vote from USEC_OFFICER.
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Vector

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2010, 11:33:30 am »

Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Source, please. Also, read my response to Bandages here (the response to the second quote, specifically).

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.

That tactic is terrible. Having individuals be grilled systematically by the town is predictable, and keeps the pressure on only one person (who is statistically unlikely to be scum). I'll stick to my tactics, thank you.

Also, I haven't tried to 'slide a mountain of votes' onto anyone. I haven't even moved my own vote from USEC_OFFICER.

No, I know.  I'm not accusing you of vote-sliding >_>  I'm just telling you what my experience is, and why I'm making the statements I'm making.  As far as that being a terrible strategy... well, I never saw "townie predictability" as a bad thing.  Scum generally know they're going to sustain some heavy fire at some point in a game, and they'd better be able to get through it.  Focusing mostly on one person at a time allows you to "crack" them and determine their alignment.

... If you want to see an example of that working really well and then exploding due to massive stupidity, check out Not-so-beginner's Mafia (first round).  It was a fairly interesting game.


Whoops, I skimmed your post and missed your second point.  Thank you for the clarification.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Vector

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2010, 11:33:55 am »

EDIT: I was, in fact, referring to the "absentee Magwebster" posts, just FYI.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Ottofar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #131 on: August 03, 2010, 12:13:44 pm »

@Whoever asked, how would I try to lynch an experienced player,
I'd latch on slightest tell. And all that stuff. I don't really know. Semi-tunnel, having them as your only serious target to avoid suspicion, and throwing meaningless tells there and there. You know, to make anyone not notice that I'm actually tunneling.

How can I contribute when I'm going to get lynched and everybody thinks I'm scum? As far as I can see, everyone is voting for me because I added a bit of humour and someone misunderstood it. I already apologized for it. If I was actually scum, I could have just lurked and played it cautiously like Thendash did in the last beginner's game (Not just Thendash, but I forget the other guy's name.), and Vector would have been lynched. Instead, I come out with a stupid statement that everybody now hates me for.

USEC, This is WIFOM, ("If I was scum, why'd I do this or that"). Don't do it.

And Rube, You feel scummy. I don't know why, though.



 

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2010, 02:59:24 pm »

@Whoever asked, how would I try to lynch an experienced player,
I'd latch on slightest tell. And all that stuff. I don't really know. Semi-tunnel, having them as your only serious target to avoid suspicion, and throwing meaningless tells there and there. You know, to make anyone not notice that I'm actually tunneling.

How can I contribute when I'm going to get lynched and everybody thinks I'm scum? As far as I can see, everyone is voting for me because I added a bit of humour and someone misunderstood it. I already apologized for it. If I was actually scum, I could have just lurked and played it cautiously like Thendash did in the last beginner's game (Not just Thendash, but I forget the other guy's name.), and Vector would have been lynched. Instead, I come out with a stupid statement that everybody now hates me for.

USEC, This is WIFOM, ("If I was scum, why'd I do this or that"). Don't do it.

And Rube, You feel scummy. I don't know why, though.

Noted.
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Thendash

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #133 on: August 03, 2010, 03:03:40 pm »

I'm getting a lot of scummy vibes from a few different people. I'm gonna re-read the thread then post my findings sometime later today when I have more time.
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Bandages

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Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
« Reply #134 on: August 03, 2010, 09:16:51 pm »


Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

[citation needed].  What's scummy about making large posts, and what about their contents do you find problematic?

Because several mafia I have seen have employed that tactic to say "Hey look I know so much that I must be a helpful town. Gee these people sure look suspicious! Vote for them and not me."

Terse and to-the-point posts are the most effective in this game because of both readability and the fact that they mostly don't draw attention to yourself.

One of the biggest reasons, you're #1 on my scum suspect list so far is because of your long, long, incredibly long posts. This, coupled with the fact that you've already tried to misdirect on others makes you pretty scummy looking. Unless someone fucks up bad soon, I'm going to suggest lynching you for Day 1 based on my suspicions.
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