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Author Topic: Fun with Syndromes  (Read 6433 times)

FreakyCheeseMan

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Fun with Syndromes
« on: July 14, 2010, 01:48:22 pm »

So, for the uninitiated, syndromes are the the things the let the game have the cool new "Poison" effects for blood or breath. They're awesome now. They could be much more so.

There is a sister thread to this in modding, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61566.0 , to discuss things that can be done with the current system.

Broken this post up by subtype for reasons of length; please comment/submit your own ideas. A lot of these are fodder for modders, so don't worry if they seem too nasty- they wouldn't necessarily be in the vanilla.

New Negative Syndromes
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Positive Syndromes
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Syndrome Mechanics
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 09:06:51 pm by FreakyCheeseMan »
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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

Pilsu

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 04:30:05 am »

I see little reason why pseudozombies wouldn't try to eat each other too. Magic is really the only acceptable handwave here.
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Rowanas

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 05:07:11 am »

Non-zombies give off
pheromones that attract them
While zombies do not.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 08:07:18 am »

Well, zombies would be something that was modded in, I doubt they'll ever be in the vanilla... syndromes would be the mechanics used by modders to make it happen, not the explanation/handwave.
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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

OneOfNone

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2010, 09:47:53 am »

I like the unicorn blood thing, but how would you use it? try to kill unicorns in your hospital? and what if it healed the unicorn, too?

Disease is too hard now, though. we cant even fight stuff that spreads from getting tracked around, how are we supposed to fight real infection?
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cameron

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 10:06:41 am »

zombies are in vanilla right now, have been for a while. Presumably if zombies became a syndrome the vanilla ones would use it
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FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 10:07:02 am »

I like the unicorn blood thing, but how would you use it? try to kill unicorns in your hospital? and what if it healed the unicorn, too?

Disease is too hard now, though. we cant even fight stuff that spreads from getting tracked around, how are we supposed to fight real infection?

Well, the unicorn thing would go one of two ways- you'd either have to rig up a *very* difficult system with grates and traps either above your hospital or near it, and hope the blood gets tracked around, or hope Toady does the "Extract" and "Tonics" thing under "Syndrome Mechanics"

Get a breeding pair of unicorns, some cage traps, and a butcher shop. Proceed to farm. Your dwarves now regenerate. Might as well just dismantle the hospital at that point.
Didn't think of that. Ok, make unicorns not be tameable, or make only the adult blood cause regeneration (can you do that?) and make them take a long time to mature. And no, even worst case, you only dismantle the hospital system on maps that *have* unicorns, arleady in the minority.

...or do it Harry Potter style. Unicorn blood heals, but makes you slighty crazier every time you're exposed to it...

Yeah... fighting disease will be hard, I can't deny it. But he could put things in the vanilla that the braver among us could mod to be truly infectious..

Ok, idea/example. An FB has a poison blood effect that causes a dwarf to spew bile once in a while, as per "Cough up *material*". The material causes heavy bleeding, but does *not* replicate itself- so the FB makes the dwarves near it poison other dwarves, but not actually infect them.

Then us happy modders could run through and make truly infectious things, and see how they work... we'd have fun, and when the time came for Toady to make "true" disease, we'd already have some knowledge of Dwarven Disease Vectors, what works and what doesn't, problems with quarantine, etc.

Also, you could make disease fightable with a "Resistance to Syndrome X" sydrome effect, where, after running its course, the syndrome makes the dwarf immune to itself. That way people wouldn't get re-infected.

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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 10:08:23 am »

zombies are in vanilla right now, have been for a while. Presumably if zombies became a syndrome the vanilla ones would use it

Zombies are, but not zombie viruses. You can have the first without the second.
I suppose it wouldn't be *too* nasty to say that something killed by a zombie becomes a zombie... it would make them more of a threat, but not an instant fortress-killer... would be harder to program, though, you'd need "On death" syndrome effects.
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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

OneOfNone

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 10:12:16 am »

You could make that poison-spewing dorf into a good thing. The dorf that kills a megabeast gets to breath gobbl-killing poison.
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FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 10:13:09 am »

You could make that poison-spewing dorf into a good thing. The dorf that kills a megabeast gets to breath gobbl-killing poison.

*Grins* Or the dwarf that kills the demon lord becomes a saint whose breath heals the insane...
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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

OneOfNone

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 10:28:43 am »

or give your does "render poisonous" stuff before fighting elves... Damn cannabals...
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FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 09:42:42 am »

or give your does "render poisonous" stuff before fighting elves... Damn cannabals...

This.

Seriously, I want some way to inflict plagues on other civs... or maybe even be able to start play in the middle of one, with the right mods/init options... seven of the last healthy dwarves in the world band together to flee the disease-infested capital, establishing their own highly quarantined base, slowly drawing both waves of lepers and the occasional healthy dwarf... trade caravans would carry the occasional infested vermin...
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What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

Deteramot

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 03:11:04 pm »

The immunity thing sounds like a good idea, but it needs some limitations, because sooner or later you're going to have a fort full of dwarfs who cannot be infected by anything. One idea that would be overly complicated is having the diseases mutate, but that would probably eat up cycles. A much simpler way to do it is to have diseases activate a flag once a dwarf has been infected and survives. In some amount of time, say a year for less serious diseases, up to five or ten years for diseases which cause horrible damage, deactivate the flag so the dwarf has a chance of being infected again.

Of course, to be a truly realistic simulation of a disease re-infecting somebody, their immune system would have to be able to fight it off faster than a dwarf who was never infected. So... yeah.

Other than that, I think it's a great idea. It probably can't be implemented until cleaning is properly fixed, but when cleaning works, it would be a nice facet for management of a fort.

+1 agreement.
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I'm currently making a nice room for my legendary clerk. I always treat my legendaries with the greatest respect, giving them the best rooms and so on. Although the walls are mostly engraved with pictures of my miner starving to death after he fell down a well, so it's not too cheerful.

Lordinquisitor

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 03:23:20 pm »

I so want a syndrom that can make the infected hostile and one that can change the raws of the creature.

I want them now. NOW. Zombie fort. Please Today One. PLEASE.

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Kanddak

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Re: Fun with Syndromes
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 03:58:12 pm »

Seems like a good foothold for implementing, or allowing modders to implement, drugs and addiction.

And making a creature's skin poisonous by contact is a precursor to nethack cockatrices and the accompanying details regarding wearing gloves and taking care not to fall down stairs.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:00:25 pm by Kanddak »
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Hydrodynamics Education - read this before being confused about fluid behaviors

The wiki is notoriously inaccurate on subjects at the cutting edge, frequently reflecting passing memes, folklore, or the word on the street instead of true dwarven science.
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