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Author Topic: How realistic worldgen really is  (Read 42463 times)

nbonaparte

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2010, 11:46:35 pm »

I must have a fortress right in the crater of olympus mons!
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2010, 11:47:29 pm »

Mmmmm... Well, the point was that in Negima, Mundus Magicus was an (absurdly detailed) world with an Earth-like atmosphere, and was basically alternate-dimension world where Mars was inhabitable.  A straight Mars mod could be cool, but I was hoping for a Mahou Sensei Negima mod.
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Draco18s

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2010, 11:49:36 pm »

Also, little known fact: Canada is in fact part of Europe, and doesnt sully America with it's fauz bacon.

One last quip, as I ran into this earlier, but wasn't reading DF forums all evening.

"I thought everyone outside of America used Canadian dollars."
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Shagomir

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2010, 11:50:44 pm »

Mmmmm... Well, the point was that in Negima, Mundus Magicus was an (absurdly detailed) world with an Earth-like atmosphere, and was basically alternate-dimension world where Mars was inhabitable.  A straight Mars mod could be cool, but I was hoping for a Mahou Sensei Negima mod.

All things are possible. I am going on a weeklong camping vacation, but when I come back I will work on a Mars worldgen. It will be easy to tweak the parameters to make it earthlike OR to make it a cold desert, once the appropriate heightmaps are in hand. Should be fun!
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Starver

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #109 on: August 20, 2010, 05:14:03 am »

Still I would think it pretty seriously cool if you could do Mars / Mundus Magicus from Negima (which is supposed to be an alternate version of Mars with oceans and life)
I was thinking more Kim Stanley Robinson's version of Blue Mars, from the [Red|Green|Blue] Mars trilogy.  (Albeit with introduced life.)

But going for a Dan Dare or even Space: 1999 era (see also Perelandra/The Silent Planet) would move the imagery closer to DF fantasy than KSR's SciFi implementation, I suppose.


All of this planetary stuff reminds me: I still have to work on my webgame thingy that uses spherical geometry (rather than Euclidean) for its planets, so I don't get polar distortions when trying to wrap a flat map onto them.  I'm trying to simplify the Great Circle calculations, though...  I'm thinking a pre-calculated lookup table would save processing time, and midpoints of lines (of lengths increasingly less than a bounded icosahedron's edges) can be largely abstracted to the averages without distorting the end product...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 05:16:29 am by Starver »
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Ampersand

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #110 on: August 20, 2010, 10:27:09 am »

Starver; If I remember right, Spore solved this problem by storing all the surfaces of the planets on cubes, and sort of inflating them into spheres. Not a perfect solution as you get different kinds of distortion, but it's not as obvious.
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Draco18s

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #111 on: August 20, 2010, 12:23:06 pm »

Starver; If I remember right, Spore solved this problem by storing all the surfaces of the planets on cubes, and sort of inflating them into spheres. Not a perfect solution as you get different kinds of distortion, but it's not as obvious.

Second Life does the same thing with scupted prims.  And valve gets they're intricately modeled cliff faces in a similar fashion.
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Starver

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2010, 09:51:28 am »

Starver; If I remember right, Spore solved this problem by storing all the surfaces of the planets on cubes, and sort of inflating them into spheres. Not a perfect solution as you get different kinds of distortion, but it's not as obvious.
Well, that makes me happier about the icosahedral idea, seeing as it's going to be less noticably distorted about the vertex[1] than a cube.

The 'only' complication being that there's a lot more trigonometry involved to make it accurate (and the "golden ratio" factor of (1+root(5))/2 being just the start of a long line of non-integer mathematics involved), and upon deciding the conventions when it comes to triangle and sub-triangle orientation and thus how a target lat/lon (range) converts to the arbitrary level of subtriangles.

I did originally consider a cylindrical approach (two circular projections based around the poles meeting a one-way-wrapping equatorial projection), each of which I could ensure contained no distortion artefacts, relative to the form of local geometry they use, but I didn't like idea of having to fudge the interface between so that it wasn't overly obvious.  Making it triangle-against-triangle at all levels means it doesn't suffer from that problem.

Anyway, I'm digressing from the reason behind this thread.  Heavily.  Apologies.


[1] If I wasn't further subdividing the triangles, anyway, to eventually make it beyond geodesic with subtly non-equilateral triangles[2], it would be 300 degrees around the icosahedral vertex, as opposed to 270 around the cube.

[2] Which, in the end, just lets me defines a planar mesh that at a local level is semi-Euclidean without so much complication regarding polar singularities and mapping to/from the extreme upper and lower edges of a planar map.  I can far easier handle triangles (and its four sub-triangles, defined by the lines linking the midpoints of its sides).
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rex mortis

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2010, 02:37:33 pm »

Quote
map of Europe

*Notices that the map doesn't have Finland*

:(
"Finland" is short for "a small country to the North, nobody cares about" (and I happen to live there). The map proves it. Just for information in case somebody plans to recreate the map, Europe is considered to go all the way to Ural mountains, deep in Russia.
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Draco18s

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2010, 02:44:56 pm »

"Finland" is short for "a small country to the North, nobody cares about" (and I happen to live there). The map proves it.

Wales is too.
</tropes>

Quote
Just for information in case somebody plans to recreate the map, Europe is considered to go all the way to Ural mountains, deep in Russia.

I knew that one.  Russia was the best country to have in Maptitude if you were playing "largest landmass."  It won in both Asia and Europe!
(The pacific islands was hard continent to find a good winner for, though.  They were all exceedingly tiny.  Though not as small as the Vatican, which had streets on its map!)
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Qmarx

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2010, 02:58:57 pm »

Someone do this with another big country.

Thus spoke the american
Hey now, the EU has more power than the US Federal Government did under the Articles of Confederation. 

Just keep telling yourselves that you're independent.  You can join the Deep South's support group.

Except the UK, Switzerland, and a bunch of tiny countries that aren't featured on this map.  You guys get a free ride.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2010, 09:32:48 pm »

The UK is part of the EU - The just dont have the Euro yet.
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Qmarx

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2010, 09:38:08 pm »

Yeah, but they hadn't crossed the crucial "articles of confederation" threshold, so I'm considering them still separate.
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Draco18s

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #118 on: August 24, 2010, 08:35:55 am »

The UK is part of the EU - The just dont have the Euro yet.

And their English is funny.
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TalonisWolf

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Re: How realistic worldgen really is
« Reply #119 on: October 20, 2013, 01:10:03 am »

While I would like a prefabricated one, I'd actually somewhat like just the pre-worldgen setup it takes to make it (even if I have to regen the world until the glaciers are in the right place), so that I could potentially use it with some mods of my own making.

I intend to post both a pre-generated world where everything is correct (rivers, ice, surviving dwarven civs), and I will also post the parameters for (semi) random world gen so you can change cavern levels, add mods, etc. The pre-generated world I will be making is 100% vanilla DF, v31.12, but the caverns have been tinkered with so they are deeper (about 150 z-levels underground, total. This may change).

This is a large map, so worldgen takes about 20 minutes or so.

EDIT:

Look what I figured out how to do!

Link to Download!

Posting to come back to download when I'm on my DF computer. Great thread!
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