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Author Topic: Legendary Lands 1.01 for 0.31.18. Now you will know why you fear the night.  (Read 38949 times)

kilakan

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2010, 01:52:05 pm »

I'd rather like a full set, but seperate bits are fine for me.  Can't wait for this though, I played the old one ALOT, and I hope you keep an ascii version (can't stand graphics.... makes my brain hurt)
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2010, 02:20:52 pm »

I'm also considering the flavours I want to create in the existing and soon-to-exist sapient races.
Humans
Industrious people of the plains, the human race builds its towns wherever they dare venture. Rarely, they will give birth to powerful beings they name sorcerers. Such members of their race live for far longer, should they survive the rigours of politics and war, and are quite capable of causing heinous injury in combat, even against the most dangerous beast.
Humans are planned to have a few small variations on their culture, which should allow them to go to war with just about anybody, including each other.

Dwarves
The hardy dwarves will remain much the same. Very little is being altered here.

Elves
Ancient peoples of the forest, the Elves seek to live in harmony with nature and maintain a very spiritual link with it. They make use of wooden weapons, combining them with their natural speed to quickly subdue those who threaten the forests.
Such weapons include your existing bows, but will be expanded to include fighting sticks such as staves and tonfa.
Plan to diverge elves into the following cultures:
Guardian style Elves - simply protect the forests, no devouring sapient races. Somewhat more sophisticated.
Savage Elves - Tribal, and cannibalistic.

Goblins
Simple creatures, the Goblins live in terrified subjugation to greater beings, and will fight wickedly for favour. Goblins hold no sense of honour, and will always seek to take down an enemy in the safest way possible. Goblins are tribal and brutal, but hold little in the way of large weapons or armour.

Hob-Goblins
Larger relations to Goblins, the Hob-Goblins hold themselves more honourably than their lesser cousins, and believe only the strong are worthy to survive. They tend to battle a great deal as a result. They have a strong preference for large weapons, and eschew shields in favour of armour.

Avari
The winged men live high in the mountains, ordering themselves in a rigidly structured society and considering themselves perfection. Often, they will go forth to end the blight represented by particularly foul examples of the other major races.
Bloodwing Avari are a rare occurance of red-feathered members of the race, and are regarded as 'supermen' by the rest of the civilisation.

Kobolds
Remaining much as they are now.

Goatmen
Similar to Kobolds, the Goatmen dwell in remote caves, hiding themselves away from the world. Unlike Kobolds, Goatmen have no particular desire to interact with the outside world, preferring to keep to themselves.

Tenuously being considered:
Tigermen
Conceptually, a cross between Savage Elves and Hob-Goblins.

Vulpinian
Small foxlike humanoids known for their intellect. Vulpinians are troublesome woodland dwellers, similar to kobolds in nuisance levels.

Ursinian
Bear-like humanoids who dwell in small tribes, and react viciously to anybody they consider to be invading their territory. Generally an adventure mode encounter.

Lizardmen
Swamp-dwelling creatures who worship ancient and fell gods. Their society is strongly structured towards religious indoctrination. In battle, they are merciless, and will devour their enemies.
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tfaal

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2010, 03:47:51 pm »

This is probably a matter of personal taste, but I never liked the "cultural rainbow" mods tend to introduce. I like the blend of savage and sophisticated that the current elves have, as well as the mixture of strength and subservience that the goblins possess. Splitting them up -- at least to me -- cheapens them, so I would probably mod the civilizations to be closer to vanilla. I might keep the sorcerers though.
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This could be a handy way of teaching preschool children mathematics.

Solifuge

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2010, 05:27:40 pm »

Dangit, I had a long post put together, but I just lost the whole thing. Here goes again:

Lofty ideals for DF Modding, all possible (though hardly expected):

1) The creation of varied entity races is neat for generating unique and strange worlds, and it's neat in its own right. However, just diversifying the existing entities with variants that look superficially the same (the game still calls them humans, dwarves, etc.), but which behave different mechanically does the same job, and stays more true to DF... while also making it so that you never know what to expect from your neighboring civs, and always generate unique-feeling worlds. I wouldn't be averse to a few things added in that stay true to established mythology and fantasy, but the existing DF Civilizations have a good dynamic going on. It makes it so that the player really doesn't know what to expect from any given entity, and allows two entities of the same race to trade, wage war, etc. In any case, entities ought to make use of the abundance of different biomes in the game. Civilizations can be found the world over, from the hotest and most hostile deserts to the densest mountain jungles; the aboriginal Canadians survived and thrived beyond the treeless reaches of the arctic circle, using bone for tools, hide and ice for walls, and whale fat for fires. Though all need not be playable in fortress mode, having custom reactions and entity positions for those which are, allowing for balanced, challenging, and thematically sensible gameplay would be nice. With a large pool of possible variations, you'd end up with different civilization interactions every time you generated a world.

Hypothetical "Entity Flavor" examples:
a. Shamanistic desert elves, who throw bolas, enslave their enemies, ride wicked scorpions, and envenom their weapons
b. Troglodytic dwarves who siege from the Depths, babble nonsense, and wield spiked fungiwood clubs.
c. Coast-dwelling amphibian men, which "grow" Muck Oysters and harvest them for mid-value pearls, which you may find encrusted on their tridents, as they ambush from your aqueducts.

2) Expanded industries to cover basic technologies, and for non-dwarf civilizations; things like neolithic toolmaking, coastal industries, alchemy, etc. Hewn Quartzite anvil-stones, carved antler pickaxes, bog-iron, knapped stone weapons, etc. Primitive or hunter-gatherer civs oriented toward animal products may use barred bone mail, shell/scale plate, etc. (even more interesting if certain creatures have exceptionally strong or valuable bones/shells), hide beds, and general bone/horn/stone tools. Also, for surface-dwellers not adept at fine Stonecrafting, creating a ceramics industry which could produce clay or porcelain goods at a kiln would be nice. Poisoning of weapons to whatever degree is possible would also be nice (passing fancy - can objects made of or decorated with a syndrome-causing material cause syndromes on a strike? If so, poisoned weapons, or [hypothetically] "enchanted" weapons are possible).

3) Inclusion of more creatures, particularly ones which are notably unique or iconic. Having 17 species of Gibbons or 23 species of Turtle might be realistic, but if they don't each bring something new and interesting to the game they're largely redundant. However, adding in the octopus, squid (with a giant varient), and cuttlefish, or even just an octopus, would bring new and iconic things to the world, which it lacks, and in the event that your adventurer is crossing a narrow ocean bay and winds up engaged in a grappling match with an octopus, or your trapper manages to put a tame one into an aquarium for a noble with specific tastes, it makes it all the more cool. Large predators like giant snapping turtles, wendigo, or even giant bombadier beetles capable of spraying severe blister-causing liquid at enemies would add variety to wilderness travels. As for megabeasts, throwing in more mythological monsters like Landwyrms, Rocs, and Treants would be nice to see. Even creating an ephermeral megabeast that serves as an Avatar of the elven Forces, with the [MAGICAL] tag, such that when it sieges it brings a horde of angry wildlife with it, could be quite cool.

In summary, what I want in a mod is a set of gameplay elements that work well together, build on what is cannon in DF with new industries and options, providing ethical/technological variations on the existing base civilizations such that your world generates with a different flavor each time (with additions staying as cannon to DF and existing mythology as possible) each with different technological and social structures in place, all wrapped in a shell of solidly interacting, well-built fantasy. A lofty ideal, but there you go.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 05:34:36 pm by Solifuge »
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2010, 10:13:06 pm »

This is probably a matter of personal taste, but I never liked the "cultural rainbow" mods tend to introduce. I like the blend of savage and sophisticated that the current elves have, as well as the mixture of strength and subservience that the goblins possess. Splitting them up -- at least to me -- cheapens them, so I would probably mod the civilizations to be closer to vanilla. I might keep the sorcerers though.

This is pretty much exactly why I'm deciding to make the mod component based.
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2010, 10:58:45 pm »

Dangit, I had a long post put together, but I just lost the whole thing. Here goes again:

Lofty ideals for DF Modding, all possible (though hardly expected):

1) The creation of varied entity races is neat for generating unique and strange worlds, and it's neat in its own right. However, just diversifying the existing entities with variants that look superficially the same (the game still calls them humans, dwarves, etc.), but which behave different mechanically does the same job, and stays more true to DF... while also making it so that you never know what to expect from your neighboring civs, and always generate unique-feeling worlds.
I wouldn't be averse to a few things added in that stay true to established mythology and fantasy, but the existing DF Civilizations have a good dynamic going on.
It makes it so that the player really doesn't know what to expect from any given entity, and allows two entities of the same race to trade, wage war, etc. In any case, entities ought to make use of the abundance of different biomes in the game.
Civilizations can be found the world over, from the hotest and most hostile deserts to the densest mountain jungles; the aboriginal Canadians survived and thrived beyond the treeless reaches of the arctic circle, using bone for tools, hide and ice for walls, and whale fat for fires.
Though all need not be playable in fortress mode, having custom reactions and entity positions for those which are, allowing for balanced, challenging, and thematically sensible gameplay would be nice. With a large pool of possible variations, you'd end up with different civilization interactions every time you generated a world.

Hypothetical "Entity Flavor" examples:
a. Shamanistic desert elves, who throw bolas, enslave their enemies, ride wicked scorpions, and envenom their weapons
b. Troglodytic dwarves who siege from the Depths, babble nonsense, and wield spiked fungiwood clubs.
c. Coast-dwelling amphibian men, which "grow" Muck Oysters and harvest them for mid-value pearls, which you may find encrusted on their tridents, as they ambush from your aqueducts.
That was more or less my plan for humans, I can probably easily introduce more variations for other races. In the previous LL mod, the humans had three classes (noble, normal, and savage), and used different languages with different naming conventions.
As for the racial variants, I like your idea for the troglodytic dwarves in particular.


2) Expanded industries to cover basic technologies, and for non-dwarf civilizations; things like neolithic toolmaking, coastal industries, alchemy, etc.
Hewn Quartzite anvil-stones, carved antler pickaxes, bog-iron, knapped stone weapons, etc. Primitive or hunter-gatherer civs oriented toward animal products may use barred bone mail, shell/scale plate, etc. (even more interesting if certain creatures have exceptionally strong or valuable bones/shells), hide beds, and general bone/horn/stone tools.
Also, for surface-dwellers not adept at fine Stonecrafting, creating a ceramics industry which could produce clay or porcelain goods at a kiln would be nice.
Poisoning of weapons to whatever degree is possible would also be nice (passing fancy - can objects made of or decorated with a syndrome-causing material cause syndromes on a strike? If so, poisoned weapons, or [hypothetically] "enchanted" weapons are possible).
I think the materials favoured by entities already occurs. It shouldn't be too hard to borrow stuff from other mods to add in more reactions for item-making, however.
I was indeed going to go for the variations of animal material strengths, such as dragon scale. The rest of stuff there may be possible to achieve with reactions.
It's not currently possible to poison weapons easily, and currently it's not possible to create a form of syndrome that would work if say, you made the syndrome'd metal into a sword, and cut something with it. I tried to do this with silver in order to make silver swords to take down werewolves and fey creatures more quickly and easily.


3) Inclusion of more creatures, particularly ones which are notably unique or iconic. Having 17 species of Gibbons or 23 species of Turtle might be realistic, but if they don't each bring something new and interesting to the game they're largely redundant.
However, adding in the octopus, squid (with a giant varient), and cuttlefish, or even just an octopus, would bring new and iconic things to the world, which it lacks, and in the event that your adventurer is crossing a narrow ocean bay and winds up engaged in a grappling match with an octopus, or your trapper manages to put a tame one into an aquarium for a noble with specific tastes, it makes it all the more cool.
Large predators like giant snapping turtles, wendigo, or even giant bombadier beetles capable of spraying severe blister-causing liquid at enemies would add variety to wilderness travels.
As for megabeasts, throwing in more mythological monsters like Landwyrms, Rocs, and Treants would be nice to see. Even creating an ephermeral megabeast that serves as an Avatar of the elven Forces, with the [MAGICAL] tag, such that when it sieges it brings a horde of angry wildlife with it, could be quite cool.
I actually already added the octopus, and it even spurts ink that'll blind you. Squid will be very easy to add.
I like your idea for the beetles, and the roc. Treants would be easy to have return, and would actually appear now.
I was also planning of creating lizards that would be similar to giant salamanders, etc.
Unfortunately, it's not possible to create an avatar of nature styled creature yet.

In summary, what I want in a mod is a set of gameplay elements that work well together, build on what is cannon in DF with new industries and options, providing ethical/technological variations on the existing base civilizations such that your world generates with a different flavor each time (with additions staying as cannon to DF and existing mythology as possible) each with different technological and social structures in place, all wrapped in a shell of solidly interacting, well-built fantasy. A lofty ideal, but there you go.

I don't think there's any set canon, given that history changes each time, and any existing dynamic will be changed by anything you do to the raws. That said, you can continue to capture the feel of vanilla DF while continuing to expand and vary upon it.
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Tormy

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2010, 05:31:28 am »

Hob-Goblins
Larger relations to Goblins, the Hob-Goblins hold themselves more honourably than their lesser cousins, and believe only the strong are worthy to survive. They tend to battle a great deal as a result. They have a strong preference for large weapons, and eschew shields in favour of armour.

So they are the Orcs in the new LL? :P
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2010, 05:35:28 am »

Something like orcs. But I find orcs are generally overdone and present a pre-formed concept of what they should be.
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Tormy

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2010, 07:28:59 am »

re: Elves -> Captain, what about adding some "special" tree types? The material of those trees would be as strong as iron at least. This way, elves wouldn't be so crappy in combat.
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Deon

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2010, 01:29:29 pm »

That's what I did in Genesis and it works well.
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Tormy

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2010, 05:33:06 am »

That's what I did in Genesis and it works well.

Oh heh. Well, it was a good idea Deon! :)
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2010, 10:43:01 am »

to be honest, I'd prefer to give them a wood strengthening reaction instead, thus granting them access to basically the same thing.
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Tormy

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2010, 11:26:53 am »

to be honest, I'd prefer to give them a wood strengthening reaction instead, thus granting them access to basically the same thing.

Wood strengthening reaction? What is this means exactly? X sword made of X wood would be "stronger" in the hands of an elf, than in the hands of a human? [I don't know too much about modding... ::)]
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2010, 11:36:39 am »

meaning the elves would have a reaction that allows them to strengthen wood.
Halfway through modding it in right now.
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Legendary Lands 2010 - WIP
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2010, 12:28:22 pm »

Glad to say it seems to work perfectly.
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