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Author Topic: Master's Thesis Based on DF???  (Read 2253 times)

Vigilant

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Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« on: July 11, 2010, 07:09:15 pm »

A friend just linked me this, the title may have been ambiguous but a cursory glance indicates that yes, it is about DF!

Someone at MIT wrote their masters thesis about DF :D

http://cms.mit.edu/research/theses/JoshDiaz2009.pdf
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Toast024

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 07:55:56 pm »

I give him an F, for Fun.
But seriously, I read the first few pages, and will read the rest later. Its impressive.
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nbonaparte

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 02:10:23 am »

Well, after reading the abstract, it looks like a paper on procedural story creation using dwarf fortress as the example, but I'll keep reading.
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NoctisVampire

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 02:13:21 am »

Almost looked like a parody on the first few pages....But it's not. Definitely serious.

Very impressive...!
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RCIX

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 02:33:24 am »

i have one face for this: 8)
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I suggest you don't think too much what you build and where. When ever you need something, build it as close as possible to where you need it. that way your fortress will eventually become epic
Because god knows your duke will demand a kitten silo in his office.
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nbonaparte

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 02:36:03 am »

That's a great story about the butcher (for those who didn't read very far, a rather sociopathic dwarf adopted a horse while leading it to the slaughter, killed it, and was ecstatic after it all).
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Xenoc

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 03:15:03 am »

Not sure about the writing style. An exclamation mark in teh first few hundred words,a nd by turns switching between an academic to an informal ("dear reader").  Very weird.

It also reads a little bit like an excuse to talk about Boatmurdered some more.  A proper introductory chapter would really have helped his case.
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Retro

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 03:40:28 am »

My thoughts from the last time this got posted:

Read most of it. Yeah, a lot of it seems to be "This is a system in Dwarf Fortress" or just recounting stories with an obvious rephrasing of the information contained. I guess that's how discussing the technical aspects of narratives in gaming has to be, but it's a bit dull. For example, the section about Boatmurdered was basically listing player posts and then talking about what the player did.

Also, early on he calls the Tax Collector the Bookkeeper repeatedly. Hopefully his professor doesn't play the game too :P

Kholint

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 04:28:03 am »

"MASTER OF SCIENCE IN COMPARATIVE MEDIA STUDIES" says it all, I think.

Not to be all degree snobby (I am degree-less), but if I were to choose a degree... it wouldn't be that.
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MaDeR Levap

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 01:32:01 pm »

I think there are worse thesises (sp?) in the world granted for more bullshit reason. In fact, DF was created by Toady exactly just for that: creating stories. He already succeed in this goal.
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nonobots

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 02:59:48 pm »

My thoughts on the paper:

It's about the narratives in and around the game, what types of architectural elements induce emergent narratives and how the community uses and supplements those to created even more meaningful narratives.

It's pretty readable - even for someone unfamiliar with the game - everything is well explained and context is given about specifics game features influencing the narratives.

The paper analyses elements from three different forum stories (of those, I've read two) and the way all those in-game and out-of-game elements play with each other to create those layered and complex narratives. As I'm an avid consumer of the game for its open-ended narrative style and am also reading a lot of the stories on the forums it's pretty interesting to have it all deconstructed and analyzed.

Some details about the in game elements driving the narratives: there is almost no 'plot' elements programmed (just a couple of hacked exceptions in old versions), only a complex bunch of potential actors/agents with all their own agendas... all stories and narratives emerge from the different procedural systems influencing each others. Hence the game creates a kaleidoscope of 'tellable moments' and creates a somewhat un-structured story: the fortress' life. Players have an indirect control of that story, they can plan, structure the space, but they can influence the agents and actors only indirectly.

Of some note (and pretty unique to Dwarf Frotress): the agent/actors themselves (seemingly) create their own story for their own sake: they will choose their own memorable moments and will engrave them on the wall, on their items, make statues about them, etc. Legends mode digs deeper in the world own 'story' and the adventurer mode can be used for creating specifics stories or experiencing the world's stories recorded by the world inhabitants.

Out of game: People actually create narratives of those moments in many different formats, leitmotivs and memes are shared by the community, fortresses are shared and "lived in" by the participants (not players per se, but something of a mash-up of co-narrator, quasi-player and reader), players hack the game to ensure specific narrative outcomes etc. Stories are about the fortresses engineering, the lives and deaths of the dwarves, justifying the game systems (and its bugs and quirks).

A lot of the narratives is done in the minds of the readers and writers of those narratives: lots of holes to fill, lots of conversation to imagine, lots of drama to write. The game having a very abstract look actually re-inforced this.

As the game as no plot per se it's very interesting to see how people come up with ways to use the game elements (religion, nobility mandates, dwarves' personality, actual hacking and modding) to create stronger plot-driven stories. Transcending the game-driven (mis)adventures of your dwarves to create a meaningful revolt, or religious segregation, etc.
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Creamcorn

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 10:07:00 pm »

I'm through the first ten pages (about a dozen minutes of reading) and this guy seems to know what he's talking about. Course, anyone addicted to DF should know what they're talking about.

Judging from what everyone said, the consensus judgment seems to be: this isn't a paper simply praising DF. And it's awesome.
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Ratbert_CP

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 11:52:44 pm »

I kinda like the fact that even MIT grad students have trouble with the DF learning cliff.  Gives me happy elitist feelings...  ;)
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Leperous

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 12:09:14 pm »

Comparative media studies? Riiiiight... Sorry, but this is kid's stuff, not content for a Master's degree. *facepalm*
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:11:03 pm by Leperous »
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Funtimes

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Re: Master's Thesis Based on DF???
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 01:09:07 pm »

Now now, you can do a Masters in Public Service Management, and that's even easier.

#1 The public are wrong.
#2 See #1

[/Arts bashing]

It's a good start, interesting, but a little too informal for that kind of paper. But it involves the reader better than almost every other thesis (maybe biased subject matter).
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