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Author Topic: Good castle/not underground. fort design.  (Read 5176 times)

Sevrun

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2010, 01:03:39 am »

as far as basic design, I'd suggest something simple at first as was the case with most castles throughout history.  i.e. a Motte and Bailey type fortress, though without the hill given the current limitations of seige weapons (or build the hill up around the fortress as you go so you have layers of selfbuilt basements if you don't care about those)  Then simply expand it the way any good fortress did.  By walling off one additional section at a time, quarrying stone as needed from... well wherever.

As far as the moat... fill it, but make it 2z deep and only fill 1z with water.  They can't shoot at you and they can't swim out, dunno if they'll be stunned by the fall in or not, but if they do, well it'll get a lung full of water and then it's a moot point.

And Mr. Jones just ninja'ed me!  lmao
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2010, 08:27:44 am »

Right now I am writing up the general design before drawing it out.
Plan
1. Set up basic underground fort for early on.
2. Set up some mines.
3. Built the outer wall, and basic defense
4.Build the inner constructions
5. Finish the defense system
6. Convert the basic underground fort into a dungeon
7. Make some finishing touches to the above ground fort.
8. Dig till I hit magma
Note: I should have had channeled out the initial ground to a single z level lower then the boarder with the exception of an island for farming, making a technical pit, and the castle would be supported by several bauxite pillars. The pit area would be refuse.
9. Fill the pit area with magma
10. ???
11. Profit fun

How do I shut off aquifers in world gen?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 09:18:41 am by Toast024 »
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2010, 09:50:17 am »

Seriously, in every world I gen, there are always aquifers on every non mountain piece of land. Is it possible to disable them?
EDIT
I HAVE GOTTEN 2 MAPS IN A ROW WERE EVERY EMBARK-ABLE SQUARE HAS AN AQUIFER!
Water, water everywhere, but not a drop (of booze) to drink.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:09:24 pm by Toast024 »
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Double A

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2010, 01:50:41 pm »

Healedabbey is one of the best I've ever seen aboveground.

http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4942-healedabbey

What's with the slanty walls?

Seriously, in every world I gen, there are always aquifers on every non mountain piece of land. Is it possible to disable them?
EDIT
I HAVE GOTTEN 2 MAPS IN A ROW WERE EVERY EMBARK-ABLE SQUARE HAS AN AQUIFER!
Water, water everywhere, but not a drop (of booze) to drink.

Did you search for an area without an aquifer? Also, try making a region world, cause islands are full of 'em.
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2010, 06:45:35 pm »

I have been using region maps, and quite literally every 3x3 square has an aquifer. I am on my 7nth map.
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Double A

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2010, 07:20:39 pm »

Wow, that's harsh. Mine are fine, maybe its a bug with your game? Maybe there's a way to deal with it in advanced options.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2010, 08:51:32 pm »

Healedabbey is one of the best I've ever seen aboveground.

http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4942-healedabbey

What's with the slanty walls?

Tileset. I use a similar one myself. I find it's more aesthetically pleasing than jagged diagonal walls.
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Africa

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2010, 12:25:41 pm »

Wow, are there any 3D screenshots of HealedAbbey?
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2010, 01:15:01 pm »

Started up the fort. I  eventually found a flat map that has no aquifer. I upped the max embark points a tad bit, and embarked with some bauxite. I tried planting wild strawberries, but my farmers are not planting them for what ever reason. I have a food storage room and an eight bed dormitory underground. Does anybody know why my farmers won't plant the straw berries?

Edit: I forgot to mention that I have the basic workshops set up downstairs.
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Hyndis

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2010, 02:32:03 pm »

Its a lot easier to build above ground if you turn off invasions. You will need a LOT of masons. I'm not kidding. 100 masons and miners aren't enough.

With invasions you need to worry about job cancellations and the extra hauling caused by killing the invaders. This all cuts into building time, making it more tedious.

I recommend starting off with a moat. Just dig out the moat to mark the exterior of the castle wall. Then I start building the castle wall first. Once the first level of the wall is complete I move everything inside the castle and begin building up from there.

At first you can just make some dorms, a dining room, and a farm above ground. Some dwarves may be unhappy, but its not an issue. Be sure to build a staging point with your rock block stockpile. For ease of building I put the rock block stockpile outside the entrance of the mine. Then 10 mason workshops also right outside the mine. This means that all rock blocks will be first on the list, since the list is sorted by proximity. Its okay if the mason workshops become a little cluttered. They will be emptied out frequently.

I wait until the staging stockpile gets full then go on a binge, designating huge constructions to be done. Dozens upon dozens of dwarves swarm about doing it. When I run out of blocks to designate I wait until more are produced.

Killing a siege is easy to do, but it involves a lot of hauling, and all that hauling done means less time building.

A large castle will take decades of in-game time to build. You will need tens of thousands of rock to build it.

To get all the stone either make custom reactions to allow you to produce stone from a workshop, or just carve huge Mines of Moria style halls underground. The halls can then double as a refuse stockpile or you can flood them with water to produce underground tree farms.
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2010, 02:53:56 pm »

If you're trying hard not to dig, embark location matters.  Water is a necessity.  Above-ground plants won't grow in freezing biomes.

A moat makes a quick and easy defense, but should be shored up with walls as soon as possible, to prevent job cancellations and ranged combat.

One of the nice things about castle building is that the layout of the land doesn't matter that much.  You can build anywhere.  But building on top of an elevation makes the first, moat building task a little easier, because you only have to remove ramps.

I recommend building piecemeal.  It can be very dangerous to try and wall a 30x30 area all at once.  Walling 9 different 10x10 areas is much safer.

It only takes a single ceiling tile to place a building.  Your dwarfs can live with single square dorms and dining rooms for a long time.

Defense isn't really any different than building below ground, except that you tend to be vulnerable during expansion periods.  A good military that patrols or defends the outside can be important during expansion.

There are still a few things that rely on the inside/outside distinction.  If you're making a castle, you pretty much have to enable gathering of outside refuse.  Because of this, I'd recommend skipping refuse piles.  Just let the stuff collect in the butcher shops, it doesn't matter that much.
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thijser

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2010, 03:17:16 pm »

 You could start near a volcano and use an obisian farm to get a lot of easy starting stone (valuable and thus making dwarfs happy aswell as reducing underground stuff). I think that you can get quite far by simply building a door and wall of your starting area and than expanding very slowly.
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2010, 03:22:22 pm »

Guys, thanks for the advice, but I sorta already embarked and stuff. Now my farmers are not planting strawberries for whatever reason.

EDIT
Do archers work now? If they do, then I will have an actual reason to work on my fortification towers.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 04:12:35 pm by Toast024 »
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clc02

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2010, 04:17:21 pm »

in .10 archers work.
The floor has to be muddy (Even on soil) for dwarves to plant on them, even surface crops.  If one spot is not muddy then they won't plant anywhere on the plot.
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Toast024

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Re: Good castle/not underground. fort design.
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2010, 04:28:22 pm »

Ok, well on a scale of 1 to fun, how angry would the traders get if I delete the trade depot while trading? Would they still come the next year?
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