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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released  (Read 82175 times)

TomiTapio

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #195 on: July 18, 2010, 03:19:15 pm »

Actually, TomiTapio, did you remake your goblins into Ender Goblins with a size of 2,000,000 or something?  I can't see many other ways for five goblin bones to weigh basically as much as an entire goblin normally weighs, when normal goblins have about 22 bones.  Elsewise, there is some very bizarre mechanic making your goblin far more massive than they should be.

(checks) damn, only four gob castes have body size tags in Genesis mod, but there are 8 castes. Deon's work :)

Size of 2 000 000 is only 2 tons, half an elephant. You know the creature sizes are in grams, not in volume units.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 04:21:40 pm by TomiTapio »
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
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arghy

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #196 on: July 18, 2010, 05:03:07 pm »

Yeah marksdwarves are not fixed--they refused to shoot gobbos unless i open the draw bridge and let them charge the gobbos.

They need a clear line of fire.  Also, I'm guessing you gave a "Kill" order through the s screen.  That will probably make them move toward the enemy until they can see him, and then start firing.  Meanwhile, the goblins will also see the dwarves, and will charge (or return fire).  Not a good situation for a marksdwarf.

What I did instead was build a wall two tiles thick at the bottom, with a fortification on top of it (and a constructed stairway leading up).  Marksdwarves are able to stand on the wall, behind the fortification, and fire outward.  When a siege approaches, give the marksdwarves a Station (move) order to a spot on the wall.  They'll wait for the enemies to approach, and then start firing.

Both dwarves were standing in front of fortifications with the gobbo standing in the middle of a bridge.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #197 on: July 18, 2010, 05:11:17 pm »

(checks) damn, only four gob castes have body size tags in Genesis mod, but there are 8 castes. Deon's work :)

Size of 2 000 000 is only 2 tons, half an elephant. You know the creature sizes are in grams, not in volume units.

Hmm... I thought elephants were only one ton, but looking at Wikipedia, maybe I was wrong.  I guess it makes more sense their bones alone are 901 kg, although that was a larger elephant.

Also, can you show a link to whatever makes you think size is in grams, not milliliters?  That doesn't really make sense, as size is used as a unit of volume elsewhere in the game, and I thought size was consistantly used in the raws.
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Rafal99

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #198 on: July 18, 2010, 06:31:01 pm »

Yeah marksdwarves are not fixed--they refused to shoot gobbos unless i open the draw bridge and let them charge the gobbos.

They need a clear line of fire.  Also, I'm guessing you gave a "Kill" order through the s screen.  That will probably make them move toward the enemy until they can see him, and then start firing.  Meanwhile, the goblins will also see the dwarves, and will charge (or return fire).  Not a good situation for a marksdwarf.

What I did instead was build a wall two tiles thick at the bottom, with a fortification on top of it (and a constructed stairway leading up).  Marksdwarves are able to stand on the wall, behind the fortification, and fire outward.  When a siege approaches, give the marksdwarves a Station (move) order to a spot on the wall.  They'll wait for the enemies to approach, and then start firing.

Both dwarves were standing in front of fortifications with the gobbo standing in the middle of a bridge.

I had the case where dwarves refused to shoot through fortifications, only one the most skilled elite marksdwarf were shooting. But the fortifications were about halfway between the dwarves and the target so skill check before shooting makes sense here.
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TomiTapio

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #199 on: July 18, 2010, 09:02:34 pm »

Also, can you show a link to whatever makes you think size is in grams, not milliliters?  That doesn't really make sense, as size is used as a unit of volume elsewhere in the game, and I thought size was consistently used in the raws.
BOZY_SIZE "sets up size at a given time. Size is roughly equal to the creature's average weight in grams."
Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_tokens#B

People don't think of creatures in liters, do they? "My dog is 70 liters (18.5 gallons) big!"

I had the case where dwarves refused to shoot through fortifications, only one the most skilled elite marksdwarf were shooting. But the fortifications were about halfway between the dwarves and the target so skill check before shooting makes sense here.
How far away were the targets? Almost every creature has a Viewrange of 20 squares.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 09:04:50 pm by TomiTapio »
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
47.05e release: http://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1538
OldGenesis screenshots: https://twitter.com/hashtag/OldGenesis?src=hashtag_click&f=image
My Finnish language file: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14884

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #200 on: July 18, 2010, 09:11:31 pm »

Also, can you show a link to whatever makes you think size is in grams, not milliliters?  That doesn't really make sense, as size is used as a unit of volume elsewhere in the game, and I thought size was consistently used in the raws.
BOZY_SIZE "sets up size at a given time. Size is roughly equal to the creature's average weight in grams."
Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_tokens#B

People don't think of creature in liters, do they? "My dog is 70 liters (18.5 gallons) big!"

Thanks to most creatures (obviously not counting those creatures made of snow or iron or anything) having a density close to that of water (being mostly made of water).  The metric scale was built so that 1 liter of water = 1 kilogram, which by extension means 1 ml of water = 1 g.  Hence, water has a density of 1 kg/l.

Roughly speaking, this means that if you measure someone's volume, you can also measure their mass, although this is complicated by their exact body composition.  (Fat is about .94 kg/l, while muscle is like 1.04 kg/l.) 

Hence, it's possible that Toady was saying "this is their size (volume), but it is also roughly going to translate into their weight (mass)" due to the implicit density of most organic life.

I say it doesn't really make sense that size for a creature is measuring specifically mass, because, again, it specifically measures volume in other aspects of the raws  (I.E. weapons), and it wouldn't make sense for size to measure mass in one raw, and volume in another.

Besides, the creatures I'm spawning seem to be a little on the massive/dense side.
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erekwednar

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #201 on: July 18, 2010, 09:16:42 pm »

I heartily thank Toady for the new challenges the .31 seies has brought.  Unfortunately the new challenge. 31.10 brings is a message that says 'unable to open any known flavor of libncurses' on an SSH session that. 31.08 works fine in. (Debian 64)
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arghy

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #202 on: July 19, 2010, 01:44:12 am »

Anyone else losing wounded dwarves because instead of getting them water they wash them first? I lost a few before that because the water kept freezing but once i fixed it i watched the doctor go back and fourth washing the dwarf dieing of thirst.
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Baughn

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #203 on: July 19, 2010, 03:05:40 am »

I heartily thank Toady for the new challenges the .31 seies has brought.  Unfortunately the new challenge. 31.10 brings is a message that says 'unable to open any known flavor of libncurses' on an SSH session that. 31.08 works fine in. (Debian 64)
That's a known bug; it looks for libncurses(w).so, not libncurses(w).so.5. It will be fixed in .11, probably. Meanwhile, just symlink.
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turgidtoupee

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #204 on: July 19, 2010, 03:51:40 am »

I heartily thank Toady for the new challenges the .31 seies has brought.  Unfortunately the new challenge. 31.10 brings is a message that says 'unable to open any known flavor of libncurses' on an SSH session that. 31.08 works fine in. (Debian 64)

I fixed something similar to this by copying the libncurses 32bit library into the libs folder. Hopefully should help.
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Starver

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #205 on: July 19, 2010, 04:53:19 am »

well the thing is, they do nothing on inactive (no job all the time) but start organizing combat training when set to active/training, but sparring is kinda broken.

Edit: my fort just got killed by a goblin ambush because my dwarves couldn't train a proper military. I'm not playing another fort until the military bugs have been squashed.

I'm still running an .08, because I quite like the fort I started up (only year 2[1], but a lot of micromanagement put into it, yet conversley haven't got around to simply copying the savegame and seeing what I need to overcopy in the saveraws) so I can't say how .10 is going, but while trying out something experimental that needed savescumming anyway, I've noticed that a bowgoblin ambush (plus others, that I can handle) always seems to be destined to arrive at about the same time as the Dwarven caravan of the second year, which I've really got no defence against.  Starting the fort back at the beginning of the year and rearranging the entryway into my 'compound' (mostly formed of axially raised 1xN bridges for a little extra mechanical effort, but to preserve the sparser-than-I'd like wood stocks) so it isn't directly overlooked by the steep hillside I built into, I can mitigate that a little.

After getting three or four freshly-trapped thieves (yay! that works now!) I know to use the burro(w) (or, perhaps more mnemonically, (w)arren) to get everyone inside, although invariable the liaiaiaiason gets killed and the merchants beat a retreat (except for that one time when the goblin melee force herded them inside my compound to be fired upon by the ranged goblins on the hillside who...  there's a planned redesign going on there, I can tell you...), and then when the ammo appears to be spent the melee military who I've been training for about 12 months seem to do Ok against anyone who cares to come into contact with them.

Anyway, that wasn't the point.

The point was that when I find out who I want as military (no pet/family ties, for causing or being the cause of major unhappiness, in the event; nor anything overly important/undeputisale job-wise; also trying to avoid procrastinators and the like) I get them marked as military, remove all jobs (including, for completeness, all hauling, the two default healthcares and even cleaning, although only hauling seems to interrupt them), assign their squad(s) to the training barracks, and both supply types to a parallel barracks equipped with stockpiles (with first trade and leather industry, then eventually homegrown metal, providing the appropriate garb/shields and weapons), and keep an eye on the nobles screen for the impending appointment.

This gets them individually training.  So far I've never (noticed) anyone sparring, but I think I tend to abandon fortresses too early (play them for weeks, my time, but only a year or three, game-time) so I've probably not seen the full gamut of post Arsenal-dwarf behaviour.

But although I was big on crossbows in the last fortress, I've so far not been tempted (beyond the first few abortive tries) to get that running nicely.


But, while writing the above (no idea if it's use to anyone, I've seen plenty of "how to" guides that are probably more accurate and tried-and-tested than my own) I think I've now pursuaded myself to restart this fort under .10 (probably re-regen, if that works, and there's not significant change of PRNG landscape output for a given seed).  As long as .11 isn't imminent.  Although I haven't been producing the practice-bolts stocks, I could probably accelerate my breeding/trapping/butchery industry in the new run-through.  Or use my wood better.


[1] Year 32, absolute, this being a Pocket region where embark starts Spring 31.
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erekwednar

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #206 on: July 19, 2010, 07:08:29 am »

Thank you Baughn, that was the trick,and thank you for text mode in general.
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greycat

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timtek

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #208 on: July 20, 2010, 02:08:21 am »

I seem to have caught the wood cutting bug. No one is cutting wood for me. I have a few dorfs set up to do nothing but wood cutting and they'd rather sit around getting drunk. I have some battle axes in a bin but they won't go get them. I read earlier in the thread that making a new axe seems to fix this, but I'm out of wood and I'm out of fuel, so I can't make any more axes. Has anyone found another way to get those dorfs chopping? It's not a big deal if I have to start over, .11 is right around the corner so I was gonna start over soon anyway, but I kinda like this fortress.

EDIT: A trade caravan has arrived and after moving my axes to the depot, my woodcutter is heading over to pick one up. If anyone else experiences this, they may be able to do the same in order to get things back on track!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 04:32:13 am by timtek »
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Rkui

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.10 Released
« Reply #209 on: July 20, 2010, 02:43:38 am »

Hi

Toady if you are working in the military training, maybe you should also look at the unhappy/happy state of the soldiers, especially the old one. Somehow the mix "go off duty", "patrol too long" (even if you set them to patrol once every 2or 3 month), and the lost of a pet make it so they are almost unable to recover an happy state, or at least its very hard. I even put an artifact in the barrack, which is huge and fully engraved, but it doesn't seam to help much.
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