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[zagibu]

I don't think crossbow bolts punching through armour really easily is actually particularly unrealistic- I think that's actually what arrows and bolts do. Whether it's good from a game-balance perspective is another question entirely.

No. Two times. It IS unrealistic and it IS bad for game-balance unquestionably. Additionally, it is undwarfish. Feel free to disagree with my opinion, though.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

I don't think crossbow bolts punching through armour really easily is actually particularly unrealistic- I think that's actually what arrows and bolts do. Whether it's good from a game-balance perspective is another question entirely.

No. Two times. It IS unrealistic and it IS bad for game-balance unquestionably. Additionally, it is undwarfish. Feel free to disagree with my opinion, though.

I personnally agree with zagibu. if bolt/arrow could pierce plate armor so easily , i doubt the firearms would have been developped. Chainmail sure, plate is a big no.

[n00ser]

Crossbows were originally designed TO punch through armor, and in reality were the first step to making mounted knights obsolete.

[Baughn]

Firearms were invented because they were easier to train people to use. And that's about it. Early versions were slower, less accurate *and* less damaging than a bow and arrow - but they didn't take fifteen years of training.

Later, of course, it became a different story...

[Haekel]

The Chinese had bronze crossbows around 400 BC. They were easy to use, mass produceable and more acurate than bows, due to the power of the shot being held by the crossbow, not the archer. They even had firing lines, similar to musket firing lines.
And they had repeating crossbows! I want those!

On Topic: Yay, New Version(s)!

Edit: By the way, I think crossbows should be deadly. They just fire WAY to often. They're goddamn machineguns right now. Reduce it to 1/10 of what its now and I'll be okay with them breaking plate armor.

[Jztiberius]

I agree with the strong crossbow argument. They were really effective historically against all types of armor but the fire rate was terrible.
So they should definitely punch through armor, and right now the goblins xbows are pretty lethal.

[Krash]

I agree with the strong crossbow argument. They were really effective historically against all types of armor but the fire rate was terrible.
So they should definitely punch through armor, and right now the goblins xbows are pretty lethal.

Actually, even larger crossbows had a hard time getting through heavy armour.  Of course, most people didn't wear such armour, and neither did horses...

[silverskull39]

Crossbows were originally designed TO punch through armor, and in reality were the first step to making mounted knights obsolete.

and then people made better armor. namely double and triple thick armor that can stop low-powered bullets. this being dwarven armor, it should be good enough to stop crossbow bolts, at least on the plate armors. chainmail should stop arrows except at close range, since that's pretty much what it was designed for. Materials come into play majorly as well. but a steel breastplate should stop steel bolts and iron breastplate should stop iron bolts, and steel chainmail should stop steel arrows, and so on.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

I'm mostly against them punching trough armor reliably (as in every single time) especially if it's weak metal bolts against steel or the like. If it were chainmail i wouldnt mind , but piercing trough metal plate on each shot is a bit over the top.

They may have pierced the knights armor, but crossbow were much more numerous than knight , and i frankly doubt they add dwarven craft on hand in medieval europe.

[smariot]

I've rediscovered the melting bug, but its happening with evaporating water and possibly scorching biomes.

On a semi related topic, assuming dwarfs are capable of sweating, they should in theory be capable of surviving temperatures up to at least 10198 Degrees Urist in extremely dry air. Yes, that's beyond the boiling point of water, but as the water on their bodies evaporates it should cool their skin enough to keep them alive. Their beards are in danger of burning, and if they try to do anything beyond just stand around, they're in danger of cooking their brains or destroying their lungs, but in principle, they should be able to survive it - the fat in their bodies certainly shouldn't be melting.

[Urist McDepravity]

Actually game just misses one of vital params of penetration calculation. Crossbow bolt could penetrate plate on perfect 90 degrees to armor surface angle. But would be deflected on lower angles.
Plus reload rate is completely unrealistic, and IMHO its the one which needs to be nerfed, not the damage.

[smjjames]

Actually game just misses one of vital params of penetration calculation. Crossbow bolt could penetrate plate on perfect 90 degrees to armor surface angle. But would be deflected on lower angles.
Plus reload rate is completely unrealistic, and IMHO its the one which needs to be nerfed, not the damage.

The reload rate was one of the complaints back in 40D, but once Toady takes care of the other military issues and balances out combat, he'll probably get to it.

Regarding the melting bug, yea, its pretty wierd since the temperature was 10081 when I checked it and thats 112 Fahrenheight, equivalent to the Sahara. While you certainly wouldn't want to be in the sun without protection at those temps, its easily survivable if you have plenty of water. Water at that temperature would definetly scald you and give you a severe burn if the contact is long enough, but we're talking about a thin layer of water here.

That worldgen had a max temp of 90, so I went and lowered that to 70 in a new worldgen, embarked on what would be a hot biome, and things were fine.

We'll just have to avoid embarking in scorching biomes for a while.

[Mel_Vixen]

I've rediscovered the melting bug, but its happening with evaporating water and possibly scorching biomes.

On a semi related topic, assuming dwarfs are capable of sweating, they should in theory be capable of surviving temperatures up to at least 10198 Degrees Urist in extremely dry air. Yes, that's beyond the boiling point of water, but as the water on their bodies evaporates it should cool their skin enough to keep them alive. Their beards are in danger of burning, and if they try to do anything beyond just stand around, they're in danger of cooking their brains or destroying their lungs, but in principle, they should be able to survive it - the fat in their bodies certainly shouldn't be melting.

There was a suggestion on that by someone were i cant remember who it was.

[VWSpeedRacer]

Has anyone else noticed odd construction cancellations with "job item lost or destroyed" and a subsequent report of "unable to complete wall/stair/etc", resulting in the construction designation being removed rather than suspended?  I'm suffering a rash of these - trying to find some rhyme or reason to it.  Makes it tricky since I have to go hunting for construction I know I've queued but has since vanished.

[smjjames]

Have you been forbidding any rock (or whatever the material is, or perhaps the item is getting moved somehow? That could do it.