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[Jiri Petru]

Can someone tell me how the new material changes change the combat? The main question here is: is iron actually better than bronze again?

[Josephus]

Why would it be better than bronze, though?

[Capntastic]

Materials have multiple statistics so materials aren't just 'better' than other ones arbitrarily.   That's pretty much what was changed.

[Footkerchief]

Why would it be better than bronze, though?

This is the thread that Toady got new material properties from, so that's probably the place to discuss it.

[isitanos]

Toady already said that flexible stuff goes "haha i am flexible!" on anything incoming. Thus it isnt that bad at all just to strong - i could imagine that the cloth/leather deploys the force of a blow over a to large area here - like the entire size of the item. If the damage calculation deploys now the force uniformly over the entire item instead gradually outward from the weapons Contact-area, you will never reach a point where you overcome the shear value. A gradual deployment of force over an area would be right thus less force the farer you are away from the Center of the hit. The form of the contact-area of a blade must here taken into acount because its a thin line (or a point in case of pointy ammo) and not a circle as for Maces. Thus the force would be deployed a little bit defferent in comparsion to maces etc.

Ah, so that explains why my war dogs (which used to be awesome and rip goblins to shreds in 40d) can't even bruise goblin thieves with their giant cave spider cloaks and other clothes. At least this was true in 31.08. The old 40d war dogs were ferocious but still vulnerable to weapons, so pretty realistic: I hope Toady brings them back.

[Torham]

Crossbow bolts fired by a dwarf however penetrate clothing+mail shirt with ease. i just tested that in arena, bolts just shred through 2 layers of clothing
( shirt+cloak) + iron mail shirt. It seems the trap crossbow fires bolts with much weaker force than a dwarf can. Note that im not complaining im just trying to understand the mechanics. I was also pleasantly surprised that after a while gobos wised up to my traps. The first few just charged them, got minced. next 2-3 were sort of carefully trying to navigate ( they were going about a square every 10 sec) and managed to avoid several traps( witch were live and not jammed). This is where the guy was showered with bolts, survived, made a save dodge a dodged into a disc trap. The remaining 2 gobos just stopped and were waiting at the entrance just in front of the traps. I don't know if this was a nice coincidence, but they were also hiding behind a corner, out of the direct line of fire from the entrance. I had to scramble the marksdwarf reservists and send them on battlements to flush them out.
As the game gets ever more complicated, priceless moments like that will become more common, i can't wait.

[HammerDave]

I was also pleasantly surprised that after a while gobos wised up to my traps. The first few just charged them, got minced. next 2-3 were sort of carefully trying to navigate ( they were going about a square every 10 sec) and managed to avoid several traps( witch were live and not jammed). This is where the guy was showered with bolts, survived, made a save dodge a dodged into a disc trap. The remaining 2 gobos just stopped and were waiting at the entrance just in front of the traps. I don't know if this was a nice coincidence, but they were also hiding behind a corner, out of the direct line of fire from the entrance. I had to scramble the marksdwarf reservists and send them on battlements to flush them out.
As the game gets ever more complicated, priceless moments like that will become more common, i can't wait.

I've noticed this a lot.  It might be time to build some lever operated spikes, on the outside of the trap rows.   

[FuzzyDoom]

I was also pleasantly surprised that after a while gobos wised up to my traps. The first few just charged them, got minced. next 2-3 were sort of carefully trying to navigate ( they were going about a square every 10 sec) and managed to avoid several traps( witch were live and not jammed). This is where the guy was showered with bolts, survived, made a save dodge a dodged into a disc trap. The remaining 2 gobos just stopped and were waiting at the entrance just in front of the traps. I don't know if this was a nice coincidence, but they were also hiding behind a corner, out of the direct line of fire from the entrance. I had to scramble the marksdwarf reservists and send them on battlements to flush them out.
As the game gets ever more complicated, priceless moments like that will become more common, i can't wait.

I've noticed this a lot.  It might be time to build some lever operated spikes, on the outside of the trap rows.   

Gobo 1: Okay, we can't go in there because of all the traps but we should be fine out her- What is that Dwarf doing?

Gobo 2: I don't know. Looks like he's pulling a leve-OH MY GOD!

[Nil Eyeglazed]

This cautious goblin behaviour-- does it maybe have anything to do with a leader goblin being trapped in a cage trap?

[Psieye]

It is known that Toady wants invaders to learn from mistakes, but how far he's implemented that code is not yet known. Eventually the goblins will be able to conclude "right, so this corridor is just bait for us, get the grappling hooks and digging tools out, we're making our own way in!" which will lead to an intellectual fight with dwarves who are constantly remodelling their fortress with moving parts and rebuilding so the goblins are constantly in the dark.

[zagibu]

Toady already said that flexible stuff goes "haha i am flexible!" on anything incoming. Thus it isnt that bad at all just to strong - i could imagine that the cloth/leather deploys the force of a blow over a to large area here - like the entire size of the item. If the damage calculation deploys now the force uniformly over the entire item instead gradually outward from the weapons Contact-area, you will never reach a point where you overcome the shear value. A gradual deployment of force over an area would be right thus less force the farer you are away from the Center of the hit. The form of the contact-area of a blade must here taken into acount because its a thin line (or a point in case of pointy ammo) and not a circle as for Maces. Thus the force would be deployed a little bit defferent in comparsion to maces etc.

Ah, so that explains why my war dogs (which used to be awesome and rip goblins to shreds in 40d) can't even bruise goblin thieves with their giant cave spider cloaks and other clothes. At least this was true in 31.08. The old 40d war dogs were ferocious but still vulnerable to weapons, so pretty realistic: I hope Toady brings them back.

This should be fixed since .06: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=744

[Libelnon]

I've noticed that there seems to be a distinct lack of fish.

Anyone else confirm a lack of fish in their forts?

Has this bug reared it's ugly head again?

[greycat]

My fortress has a brook, and I have no trouble pulling some fish from it every season.  But I've not yet seen a single shelled creature, either above or below ground (though I haven't told anyone to fish in the second cavern; just the first one).

In previous forts I've pulled turtles from surface pools at the start, thereby supplying enough shells for a whole generation's worth of artifacts, but this doesn't seem to be reproducible.

[axus]

Dunno if I call that productive.. a small internal testing group woulda shown the bugs pretty quickly

Ha!  A large external testing group found it really really fast

[melwil]

Hi, as I can't get archery practice to work, There's a thread in general discussion about marksdwarves, so I posted there instead (don't want to clutter and spread the discussion in here).

Starts off with some ill-advised language and some feedback and then feedbacks feedback, blablabla, but the concern is legitimate, so I'll continue working on that.

The thread is here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61202.15


PS: thanks for that quote for a siggy, axus =P
PPS: and thanks for a fucking _awesome_ game, Toady! Whoever doesn't like or accept bugs never tried to program anything!