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[lumin]

Add me to the list that absolutely hates, I repeat, hates Steam.  Their prices are high compared to the legal places I could get them, they have draconian DRM, are terrible for modders, spam you with advertising, and annoy you with the constant updating.  The list could go on and on. 

I think most of those who use Steam are simply not computer savvy enough to care about modding to begin with, or are simply rabid FPS players where they find Steam useful for chatting with their guildies.  For the rest of us who simply just want to play a game that we paid for, hassle free, we detest it.

Another thing about Steam.  You don't OWN anything when you purchase through them, you're simply making a long-term rental at the discretion of the retailer.  Any time Steam feels like closing up shop, you're screwed.

Less of a troll and more of an "I'm an idiot and bought a game that requires steam and GFWL and I don't like it." post.

Seriously?  You lose the argument so you revert to calling him an "idiot"?  Reverting to name-calling in a debate always signifies that you have lost control of yourself and the argument.  Reported to the mods.

Yes you are.

Now that I've let the cat out the bag it is no longer funny

Um, if anyone was trolling it was most certainly you as you made a point to come onto this thread to label someone else a troll before even making an attempt to add to the discussion.

[dogstile]

Waiiiiit wait wait wait. Do you honestly think you can't mod games that you get off steam?

You poor, poor person.

[Soulwynd]

i'm still mad that ultima online requires me to be connected to the internet at all times just to play it

way to scam me lord british!!!

Now you're trolling. Steam rarely lets you run offline games offline.

Waiiiiit wait wait wait. Do you honestly think you can't mod games that you get off steam?

You poor, poor person.

Not if it alters the executable or any of the DLLs, that's a VAC ban offense.

[Beeskee]

I've had good luck with Steam as long as it is not a new release. If it's a new release, their bandwidth curls up and dies. After a few days things are OK though.

If I avoid Steam and buy the boxed copy instead I run into a different problem. It seems every time I buy a boxed game, the DRM keeps me from playing, or the game's required update server is down or slow and I can't play for a few days anyway.

So for me the choice is Steam except new releases, or boxed games that I won't be able to play for a few days because their DRM throws a hissy fit or the update server is bogged down and updates are required to play.


Every time I think about playing something besides Dwarf Fortress, I end up remembering the trouble I have with retail games.


Windows Live is a steaming cow pattie though.

[3]

Any time Steam feels like closing up shop, you're screwed.

This won't be the case afaik (as it's not actually necessary for you to connect to the Steam servers to actually play anything that's already installed, although see below) unless Valve make some kind of stealth update wherein Steam just locks everyone out of everything. Which would be ridiculous (and likely illegal) without them telling people beforehand (in which case you could just block Steam from connecting to the Internet).

Steam rarely lets you run offline games offline.

Am I the only one who's never experienced this?

[dogstile]

Waiiiiit wait wait wait. Do you honestly think you can't mod games that you get off steam?

You poor, poor person.

Not if it alters the executable or any of the DLLs, that's a VAC ban offense.
[/quote]

So use mods that are made for steam users? I mean, as far as I know every game I own can be modded in some way.

Of course, I don't know what you mean by DLL, so its very likely i'm wrong.

(In other words, "whutz DLL lol")

[subject name here]

u mad

as long as i have used steam i've noticed none of this advertising you talk about and if the drm is too draconian for you then i wonder how you ever figured out how to use a computer because if navigating to a store page, buying a game from it, then double clicking on it as soon as it finishes downloading is too complex and draconian for you then how the hell did you ever figure out dwarf fortress?

if steam ever (you'll be long dead before it happens) closes shop they'll probably (read:definitely) make it possible to play purchased games without it.

do you know how many half life 2 mods there are? more then you can count that's for sure and nobody who's played them has ever gotten vac banned

[Calhoun]

Add me to the list that absolutely hates, I repeat, hates Steam.  Their prices are high compared to the legal places I could get them, they have draconian DRM, are terrible for modders, spam you with advertising, and annoy you with the constant updating.  The list could go on and on. 

I think most of those who use Steam are simply not computer savvy enough to care about modding to begin with, or are simply rabid FPS players where they find Steam useful for chatting with their guildies.  For the rest of us who simply just want to play a game that we paid for, hassle free, we detest it.

Another thing about Steam.  You don't OWN anything when you purchase through them, you're simply making a long-term rental at the discretion of the retailer.  Any time Steam feels like closing up shop, you're screwed.

http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/boxplox
I've spent less than half of that total, where the hell do you live? Magic Fairy Land? Draconian DRM? Really? I'd like to know what you think about TAGES, Securom, and a whole bunch of other DRM types. Terrible for modders? Steam very rarely intrudes on your ability to mod, and when it does, it's usually easy to circumvent. And I Mod pretty much every game I own that I can. SPAM? I get maybe 1-2 things that pop up with steam when I launch it, And they aren't Spam ad's. If I can save 80% on a game I'm damn glad steam informed me. I never get any pop-ups while it's running. Annoy me with constant updates? it only wants to update for me when there are updates, so I honestly don't know what you mean by that.

I play my steam games hassle free, and reap the benefits of Steam.

And while it may be true, you need steam to play steam games, Steam isn't going to just disappear overnight. It's makes tons of dough for all parties involved. It's not they're going to say "Well, that steam thing sure was cool, but I'm tired of all this MONEY! SHUT IT DOWN!."

And if steam ever does go away, I'm confident that Valve will make it so that you don't need steam to play your steam games anymore. They are a respectable company and it doesn't take a genius to realize that they support their community.

[subject name here]

also the ads for games can be turned off



ignore the circled bit it's above that (that was for a friend lol)

[Cthulhu]

Seriously?  You lose the argument so you revert to calling him an "idiot"?  Reverting to name-calling in a debate always signifies that you have lost control of yourself and the argument.  Reported to the mods.

Were you reading the same thread as the rest of us?  There wasn't much of an argument, Huesoo was mad at Steam for various non-Steam problems, and people pointed that out repeatedly.

I don't think Huesoo's a troll or anything, trolling is an active attempt to piss people off and I don't see that here.  For reference, this is a troll.  Huesoo is just angry and attacking unrelated things (I'll agree that Games for Windows Live is terrible)

[Soulwynd]

Steam rarely lets you run offline games offline.

Am I the only one who's never experienced this?

Probably. I've never been able to run any [offline] steam game offline. Even after doing exactly as they tell you to. Which means connecting to the internet to tell steam to run offline, which is retarded.

Key word is VAC. I don't know a whole lot of moddable online games and even fewer that don't allow server hosts to decide if they want to use VAC or not. VAC probably isn't what you're thinking of, and I have no idea what it is you ARE thinking of.

That also means being unlucky with a virus can get you vac banned. A lot of old games used to be modded that way due to actually not having mod support, but nowadays, it's rare.


I'm pretty sure there are several illegal clauses in the click-wrap agreement we have to agree with. It explicitly states that if you have any legal problems with steam, you need to cancel your account and suck up your loses and not bother them anymore. If you want to sue us, cancel your account and don't sue us. Unless the law in your state/country says you can still sue us after agreeing not to sue us.

Heh..

[Calhoun]

Steam rarely lets you run offline games offline.

Am I the only one who's never experienced this?

Probably. I've never been able to run any [offline] steam game offline. Even after doing exactly as they tell you to. Which means connecting to the internet to tell steam to run offline, which is retarded.

I've never had a problem with Offline mode.

[subject name here]

Probably. I've never been able to run any [offline] steam game offline. Even after doing exactly as they tell you to. Which means connecting to the internet to tell steam to run offline, which is retarded.

i've gotten portal to run offline durring an internet outtage all i had to do was wait until steam started found out it couldn't connect then it booted up in offline mode

i've never used offline mode until a month ago so maybe it was horrible back when you tried it?

[Thexor]

I promised myself I'd stay out of this for a while... but I just can't. Not after this.

Add me to the list that absolutely hates, I repeat, hates Steam.  Their prices are high compared to the legal places I could get them,

Firstly, there are Steam sales. Ignoring the "Perils of Summer" sale that left damn near everything in the Steam catalog at 50% off, plus daily deals often reaching 80%+ off, complaining about pricing isn't easy.
Even if you're not purchasing the 'sale' games, all purchases are tax-free, and prices are usually standard retail prices. (The only real pricing complaint I can see, is that Europeans are given a price in Euros that's one-to-one with US dollars, which is obviously not good. Unless you live in Europe, though, that's not a problem.)

they have draconian DRM

Say what? Steam's DRM is considered the least-intrusive of any DRM scheme currently available. From Ubisoft (constant internet connection required to save single-player games) to SecureROM (don't get me started), Steam is the simplest and kindest. Heck, if you switch to Offline mode you have practically no DRM.

are terrible for modders

Well, actually, not entirely. Many mods are integrated into Steam - a half-dozen Source mods are available (free, obviously) through the Steam store. Steam does an excellent job of advertising and supporting mods for its games. (And yes, non-Valve games have supported mods as well - just look at Killing Floor.) Meanwhile, it's true that mods directly modifying .exe files are discouraged. But don't tell me that you'll be VAC banned, because VAC is only active for online games (and even then, only when you're connected to a VAC secure server).

spam you with advertising

Really? One 'update news' when you launch the client is spamming?

and annoy you with the constant updating.

If having your game up-to-date, according to the publisher, is annoying, then you've got a problem. Steam provides a mechanism for developers to push patches (solving bugs, fixing crashes, etc.) that you would otherwise have to go hunting for. One of the biggest challenges of a non-Steam game is trying to find the most recent patch. Seriously, last time I re-installed CoD4, I spent 20 minutes scanning the web for the most recent patch (first to figure out what was the most recent patch, then to download the patch, then to download the previous patch when I can't find a non-incremental version of the current patch.) Having an up-to-date game isn't 'annoying', it's critical to enjoying a bug-free and stable game.
[/quote]

 

I think most of those who use Steam are simply not computer savvy enough to care about modding to begin with, or are simply rabid FPS players where they find Steam useful for chatting with their guildies.  For the rest of us who simply just want to play a game that we paid for, hassle free, we detest it.

I consider myself a computer-savvy person, seeing as how I'm studying Software Engineering. I'm also a frequent FPS player. I use Steam almost exclusively. Please, avoid over-generalizations.

Another thing about Steam.  You don't OWN anything when you purchase through them, you're simply making a long-term rental at the discretion of the retailer.  Any time Steam feels like closing up shop, you're screwed.

Hey, buddy. I've got news for you. Those other games sitting on your computer? You don't 'own' them either. Go read the EULA, and you'll find that you've only licenced them, too. (And I have no clue what you're talking about with "at the discretion of the retailer." I've never heard of any retailer attempting to shut down a game over Steam, and I've never heard of that being permitted under the Steam agreement either.)

Meanwhile, Steam has stated that, in the event that the Steam servers shut down, they have an update prepared that will remove the connection requirement for all games, meaning that you'll be able to run anything you own. Of course, if you choose to mistrust Valve's word on this, that's your call. Frankly, I consider the myriad benefits (auto-patching, cheap games, unobtrusive DRM) to be worth the slight risk of the single most popular digital distribution platform suddenly floundering and collapsing.

[Soulwynd]

Well, it was before the steam UI update. So things might have changed for the better.

You don't 'own' them either. Go read the EULA, and you'll find that you've only licenced them, too.

Nope, you do own them, despise whatever the EULA says. It's part of the american law that clearly dictates you -own- what you purchase. You can wikipedia/google for it as well. The license goes to the number of computers you can run your game/program in, so alas, at least one, always, no matter what.

In the United States, Section 117 of the Copyright Act  gives the owner of a particular copy of software the explicit right to use the software with a computer, even if use of the software with a computer requires the making of incidental copies or adaptations (acts which could otherwise potentially constitute copyright infringement). Therefore, the owner of a copy of computer software is legally entitled to use that copy of software. Hence, if the end-user of software is the owner of the respective copy, then the end-user may legally use the software without a license from the software publisher.