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Author Topic: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged  (Read 6756 times)

Duuvian

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Maximum sentence of 52 years

What are Bay12's thoughts on this issue? I feel that if the powers that be are doing wrong, then individuals stepping up in such a way are a necessity to prevent the abuse of power and that this issue needs to be DIRECTLY in the public's view lest we forgo any more of our already extremely limited ability to influence our country's use of armed forces, which exist (or should exist anyways) only as a way to defend our people and not as a tool for rich men to control resource wealthy countries.

I haven't seen any evidence yet that he leaked things particularly important to National Security, or more importantly my family's security; but rather things relating to the ability of the military and government to operate without the input of honest, interested, and concerned citizens. Then again, I have no idea what was in the other documents he leaked and likely never will if the government has it's way, but I still cannot fathom how hiding such things as a video of the massacre of unarmed journalists and the family who were brave enough to assist gravely wounded human beings is preferable to the public knowing about it, unless they fear to lose some control over us civilians. This makes me question why both Republican and Democrat politicians have so far refused to comment on the issue as far as I know. (please post links if you have them) It seems Democrat's support of human rights, and the Republican's support of a less powerful government would render the issue debatable, yet I wonder if they don't discuss it because it would weaken their ability to do whatever they want without telling us.

This issue and several other recent moves make me think I would gladly be a Tea-partier if it weren't for the fact that I believe that movement is mainly going to be used as a way to remove reasonable regulations that help keep extremely wealthy and powerful groups from harming others directly or indirectly for profit or power; instead of creating a more open government as it claims. I sometimes wonder if Mr. Obama's presidency was masterminded by the same people causing trouble in the world for money, but I suppose that's being too paranoid. I had my suspicions that it was bad news when he came out of no where with very limited experience to beat Clinton in the Democratic primary. My last and greatest hope for Obama is that he can get us out of these two wars of occupation without starting a new one or being dragged into another country's war. My fear for him is that the military's high brass are as corruptible as any other person and that he doesn't have enough experience to feel confidant in overriding them even if he may be correct to do so.

Anyways, my guess is that they will declare a blanket of secrecy over the entire trial to protect National Security. More like they are protecting their job security. I still have yet to feel my family's security is threatened by Afghani's in Afghanistan armed with AK47's and RPGs. If they have weapons of mass destruction, its another story, but there are none that we know of in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Western governments have been successful in preventing most if not all terrorist attacks since 9/11, thwarting attempts that originate from countries other than Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel is an exception, but there are other threads for that with mixed opinions and I'd prefer not to drag that into this discussion.

Meanwhile, Iran is still chugging away at producing their own homemade nukes, and the UN twiddles while the greatest opportunity for Western interference in years passes by (Green movement) because they are stuck in two sticky messes already. It's like someone WANTS World War III to break out in the Middle East within a decade or two and is trying to stack the deck to make it happen. Somehow I get the feeling if that person exists it won't be his blood pooling out. Instead there would be many thousands of crispy civilians and millions of young men dead who could have been doctors or engineers or farmers; in the Realistic BEST case scenario of a nuclear age World War. Entire cities were destroyed in WW2; thinking that people would be behave in a more civilized manner in the era of the guided missile with which you don't even have to risk aircrews to ruin your enemy's civilian population is somewhat naive in my opinion. This is even with conventional warheads, rather then those blasphemous (against mankind) biological concoctions governments spend so much on to have even more ways to eliminate the entire human race if they can not control their section of it.
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Nikov

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 07:10:06 pm »

He should be tried in a court of military justice.
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C4lv1n

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 07:38:24 pm »

Classified is classified, he's lucky they're not charging him with treason, instant death penalty. Even here in Canada.
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Phmcw

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 08:08:04 pm »

Great, know we just know what the us military think about murdering civilian : SHOOT THE GUYS WHO TELL THE MEDIA.
I hope the American will show Obama what they think about it.

I love how some poeple says the war on terror is about protecting freedom of speech.
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Cthulhu

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 08:14:48 pm »

Derp derp derp

I guarantee your country executes convictees of treason too.  It's par for the course.
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Nonsapient

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 08:20:32 pm »

I'm kind of wondering how this was classified in the first place.

A video of U.S. troops killing civilians being classified?  That just seems like an abuse of the system.
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Aqizzar

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 08:22:09 pm »

Derp derp derp

I think the argument there is whether revealing screw-ups in a government activity from the inside should count as treason or a public service.

I think it's both, personally.  The whole reason we have trials is to establish whether and how much blame is warranted, given the circumstances of the act.  If, for instance, it's determined that the guy in question had no way of getting real recourse or action from inside the military for what happened, or some other extenuating circumstance, maybe he'll be sort of forgiven, or more lightly punished, for taking to the press what was indeed pretty damning evidence of something that's not supposed to happen.  More than likely, he will be found guilty of something, but he wouldn't be executed for it even in a military court.  It's a political trial to be sure, and this is a very bad environment to look like you're willing to destroy people who go to the press over internal matters, especially after all the other shit this case kicked up.

Ultimately, the guy almost certainly knew he'd be found out and tried.  I'm sure he took that into consideration.  It's basically the assumed duty of anyone sitting on incriminating material whether the public good of releasing it illegally outweighs the personal consequences.  Seems like he decided, yes.

I'm kind of wondering how this was classified in the first place.

A video of U.S. troops killing civilians being classified?  That just seems like an abuse of the system.

It's proprietary military property.  Technically, every document the military generates, especially in regard to combat footage, is considered classified unless declared otherwise.  But I could be completely wrong about that.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 08:24:29 pm by Aqizzar »
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Nonsapient

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 08:28:31 pm »

It's proprietary military property.  Technically, every document the military generates, especially in regard to combat footage, is considered classified unless declared otherwise.  But I could be completely wrong about that.
You're probably right.  Sure seems like that would get in the way of the military being accountable to civilians.
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Aqizzar

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 08:30:42 pm »

It's proprietary military property.  Technically, every document the military generates, especially in regard to combat footage, is considered classified unless declared otherwise.  But I could be completely wrong about that.
You're probably right.  Sure seems like that would get in the way of the military being accountable to civilians.

Don't know where you got the idea that it was supposed to be.  The military is accountable to the civilian government on the people's behalf, not necessarily anyone who takes issue with it.
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Phmcw

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 08:34:48 pm »

I guarantee your country executes convictees of treason too.  It's par for the course.
No, death penalty is forbidden here, it's in the constitution.
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Rilder

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 08:44:33 pm »

instant death penalty. Even here in Canada.

Nope.

Quote
Punishment for high treason
47. (1) Every one who commits high treason is guilty of an indictable offence and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

Punishment for treason

(2) Every one who commits treason is guilty of an indictable offence and liable
(a) to be sentenced to imprisonment for life if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(a), (c) or (d);
(b) to be sentenced to imprisonment for life if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(b) or (e) committed while a state of war exists between Canada and another country; or
(c) to be sentenced to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(b) or (e) committed while no state of war exists between Canada and another country.

Corroboration
Source
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Nikov

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 08:48:28 pm »

Holy shit, there are countries that don't execute traitors?

"Okay Private Goober, storm that hill."
"What? That's dangerous. I might get shot. No way."
"If you don't, you'll be tried for treason!"
"And what, get fourteen years imprisonment? Fuck you, sarge."

This explains France. WTS French rifle, never fired, dropped once.
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Aqizzar

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 08:54:55 pm »

Yeah, what a shocker, you don't have to threaten people with death, even people who willingly join such an incredibly structured organization as a military, to get them to play by the rules and not stab each other in the back.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 08:58:16 pm »

I guarantee your country executes convictees of treason too.  It's par for the course.
No, death penalty is forbidden here, it's in the constitution.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the military have the power to go around that?

I'm probably wrong.

Holy shit, there are countries that don't execute traitors?

"Okay Private Goober, storm that hill."
"What? That's dangerous. I might get shot. No way."
"If you don't, you'll be tried for treason!"
"And what, get fourteen years imprisonment? Fuck you, sarge."

This explains France. WTS French rifle, never fired, dropped once.

Statistics and France!

Wars fought: 168 'major' war.
Wars lost: 49
Wars drawn (that is, fought to a standstill or somesuch): 10
Information on their armed forces: They number around 250,582 regulars, which is the largest army in European Union. They come third in the world "bloated military budget" race, and have the third most nuclear weapons of any country on the planet.
Their military as a whole have surrendered fairly irregularly in their history.
This is not a comparison between America and France. This is simply reminding you that if you're not America, the French will fuck you up if you mess with them.

And yes, a lot of that is from Cracked. I always feel bad when I learn something from Cracked, so I did go out and try and confirm it from others sources. Wikipedia is good for that, if you go to their references.

EDIT: Wow, that was some hyperbole from me. Fixed.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 09:03:00 pm by Jackrabbit »
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Phmcw

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Re: U.S. Soldier who leaked war video + other documents charged
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 09:02:41 pm »

How original, trolling about France.
Anyway, I'm happy that even our enemies are treated somewhat humanly, something you cannot say.

Back on topic, it's an obvious abuse of the system, and should this trial end on anything harsher than an expulsion from the army, a true infamy. 
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In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.
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