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[smjjames]

Did you ever doubt?

Seriously though, the idea of an arsenal dwarf sounded pretty cool at the time when he told us about it the first time and like the new military system, it was something new that he wanted to do, but it ended up emulating bueruacracy in the military and causing more problems than it would be able to solve.

[Noble Digger]

Jeeeeeze, I thought this guy would be popular. I for one like him He runs off to his office and 3 or 4 children bobble along after him, he makes some notches in some tablets and it's all done. I generally only produce military equipment in large batches (7 whole sets, 10 whole sets, whatever) so I don't see him active very often and generally, it just means it'll be a bit longer before the dwarves go get this stuff, yet it doesn't require my input.

[Makbeth]

And by "donation" you mean "bribe," right?

No.

I thought the whole idea of donating for the project was that if you liked where it was going and wanted to support its development, you contributed to it.  The creation of the arsenal dwarf was one of those things that was such a bad idea that it was hard to tell if Toady was simply making a bad mistake or if he was actually trying to antagonize the people who play his game.  Meanwhile very little of what made 2010 a downgrade from 40d was getting fixed, even after several versions with these obvious flaws.  I didn't want to fund DF when it was going in that direction and I said so. 

Now, the Arsenal Dwarf is gone and the military is being fixed for the next version.  The game is heading back towards being fun rather than something that makes me want to spend my weekend working instead. I like that, so I'm donating to the project because I'm ok with paying for things that I like.  I just don't like paying for things I don't like.

[Silleh Boy]

Some of these things sound great on paper.

It's sad that the vision that Toady had for this one didn't live up to what it could have been. Maybe in the future however, the Arsenal Dwarf'll  live up to Toady's expectations.

[Urist McDepravity]

Why do people hate him?

Because, as other nobles, he will do what he is supposed to do only when he got nothing else to do.
Which means you need to dedicate someone to be exclusively AD, with his own throne room.

Although I dont find it too bad myself, its even kinda nice to be able to blame AD for all these equipment failures and punish him accordingly.

[Dakk]

Why do people hate him?

Because, as other nobles, he will do what he is supposed to do only when he got nothing else to do.
Which means you need to dedicate someone to be exclusively AD, with his own throne room.

Although I dont find it too bad myself, its even kinda nice to be able to blame AD for all these equipment failures and punish him accordingly.

Dwarf Fortress bugs: We won't care about it as long as it gives us an excuse to punish a dwarf in the most foul and unnatural way we can conceive.

[Miggy]

I never did mind the arsenal dwarf really... I always coupled him up with my manager, and never did I have a moment of "Oh shit, I need these dwarves equipped *now* and my arsenal dwarf is sleeping". I guess I was just lucky, or good at preparing.

I do think that the arsenal dwarf could provide some usable gameplay in one sense, however I think that it should work like the manager role. In that, it shouldn't *restrict* the vital functioning of the military, just make it easier to use once it scales up. Having things like uniforms, equipment lists and perhaps some schedules being locked until you get an arsenal dwarf would make sense. It wouldn't make it absolutely impossible to get a military without it, but it would make it much easier to put the military on auto-pilot once it gets larger.

And obviously, the potential duty of the arsenal dwarf/quartermaster will greatly improve the moment the army arc is live, so he could play some important role in that as well.

[alway]

The arsenal dwarf in my current fort is legendary in stonecrafting or somesuch, and his office and bedroom are right next to one another; both are relatively close to food/booze. I set him up for double duty as record keeper as well, and it works just fine. Well, as long as there are unrelated equipment bugs...

And seriously, you can't really complain about partying dwarves, a work-around to parties* of any sort has been known about for years. So if your dwarves are partying, it's your choice.

*for those unaware of it, you can use zones to create meeting areas, rather than tables/statues, with the same effect minus the parties; not even marriage celebrations occur

[Bouchart]

Why do people hate him?

The Arsenal Dwarf complicates things and only frustrates.  I don't know why dwarves wouldn't be able to pick up a sword without someone else's permission.

Maybe the Arsenal Dwarf could be some nobleman in the future that just makes demands for armor and weapons?  That would be more reasonable.

[alway]

The Arsenal Dwarf complicates things and only frustrates.  I don't know why dwarves wouldn't be able to pick up a sword without someone else's permission.

I think the previous release sums it up pretty well, what with the frustrations of weapon management. The arsenal dwarf merely adds an explaination of who is giving the go-ahead on some weapons, and not others. Just as having a manager is required for certain job related tasks.

[mnjiman]

I would think that the arsenal dwarf would be implemented again once world battles are implemented. That way he would be responsible for making sure that off map armies have the appropriate equipment.


Either way, *cheers for Toady*

[Thundrim]

Hopefully the Arsenal Dwarf will return in some capacity. I liked the idea of a proper military structure, beyond the practical implementation in this case.

---

[yarr]

Need 31.09 ...

Man my fingers are twitchy already.

[JimiD]

I got my military to work without too much trouble by making sure the AD had no other tasks, so I didnt mind him.

No he has gone, it got me thinking.  It was one dwarf out of my 40 odd neutralised, so that the military acted like it did before when the pop. was less than 20.  In other words you could have taken the role and dwarf away, and there would be no change, so he didnt add anything.

Some thoughts on what the AD might do:

Cloth uniforms are disabled without an AD.  Not armour, just cloth.  With an AD you can set detailed dyed and metal uniforms for each squad, and the AD will talk to the Manager, and arrange for them to be made, stored, then used.

Perhaps all uniforms are disabled without the AD, and all dwarves chose their favourite weapons and go for max armour.  Would still need to be able to determine which dwarf is melee or ranged without the AD though.  Cloth as above.

In the first above, the military is completely under our control, and the AD is used to dress them in particular colour.
In the second, the military is basic, but generally all I want is a melee squad and a ranged squad, in the best armour I have atm, but the AD would provide more detailed control.

Perhaps the AD could also provide more detailed control over uniforms, so Bone, Shell, Bronze or Copper could be specified for particular squads.  I still hanker after a Royal Guard in Forgotten Beast armour.

[Chrispy]

Expanding on that, it would be rather cool to see the manager position deal with such issues, not just putting make orders for the cloth and threading jobs, but to go as far as, say, have a field that's got an option to be automated.  There would be a lack of dye for a uniform, so the manager would tell the farmer to plant the seeds in that particular plot, and later for them to be turned into dye.