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[Soulwynd]

Games aren't getting better, reviewers are becoming spoiled bought retards.

[Grendus]

Games are getting better, imo. Or rather, on average they're getting better. My dad had an old atari, and while the only cartridges he kept were the good ones you could tell the difference. While you could tell the studios tried hard, technical limitations forced them to skimp on everything we love nowadays - gameplay, story, physics, graphics, etc were missing. All you had was an arcade game, with a backstory in the manual that was lost to time. At bare minimum, games have improved from the old days by sheer capability.

But even then, I'd argue games are getting better on average. Players expect more from a game, and the availability of information, even biased information, means that games with gaping holes in them don't do well. Anyone remember Fort Zombie, or Painkiller Resurrection? Nobody bought these games because they were unstable or just crap, and people reported such to the various forums and review sites. Game producers have to produce games that are at least worth the first playthrough or nobody will buy them. Meanwhile, the incredible titles pop up from time to time. Half Life 2 and Portal were awesome, Oblivion and Fallout 3 were both first rate for anyone who wasn't expecting a sandbox capable of dynamically creating the plot, Mount & Blade was an incredible sandbox game and has a very nice selection of mods, and let's not all forget our favorite game by the Toady One. Games on average are better, and great titles are still made. The reason people think the quality is declining is they compare a bread and butter title like the latest Call of Duty sequel to classic titles. If you compare the average to the best, you'll see it on the decline at all times.

[Dakk]

Meh, I don't trust the media regarding games, its common knowledge that IGN, tentonhammer and other sites are all paid to give good reviews, though sometimes they rate give a good rating to games that are genuinaly good.
I do believe, however, that since today old ideas are being repeated over and over again, sensible developers are being forced to think about new, interesting concepts to make their games stand out. So games are slowly getting better as time passes, because the market is already realizing that spamming GTA clones and shooters isn't going to keep their pockets full forever.

Anyway, if you do want a good trustworthy opinion on a game, try it yourself. Rent it, borrow it, play the demo. If you can't do anything like that, somehow, ask someone that played it. Just never trust anything the media tells you about video games, for the best or for the worst.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Games are definitely getting better. Honestly. If you were to browse through the catalog of the SNES the whole thing, the amount of good games would be quite low. Compared to the catalog of say, the Xbox 360. There are more Good and okay games, less GREAT titles, but there are much less total shit games.

I'm a firm believer that the average game today is much better than the average game of yesteryear.

Even when people give me examples of amazing older games, (Like the OP.) those were standout titles. I can list a bunch of great modern games.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying review standards aren't slipping. All I'm saying is games are getting better.

Sure... name a few modern games that are as good as the gems of the nineties.

[subject name here]

take off your rose tinted glasses and smell the ****

yep some gems of the nineties huh ionic

okay pretend this is a new saw movie and you're being forced to play those games to save your life, get to it.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Um, what possible leap of logic (or rather lack there of) could have caused you to think that when I said "gems" I was referring to the worst games you could find?  By "gems" I meant good games.  That is the generally accepted meaning isn't it?

[Cheeetar]

Sure... name a few modern games that are as good as the gems of the nineties.

Dwarf Fortress, a game that was last updated in 2010.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Sure... name a few modern games that are as good as the gems of the nineties.

Dwarf Fortress, a game that was last updated in 2010.

Yes yes, DF is great and all.  It also hasn't even been officially released yet and is far from anything that even the most idiotic rush happy publisher would consider finished.  (Ok, that's probably not true.  If DF had a publisher they'd probably tell Tarn to tack on some graphics and shove it out the door right now.)

[KaelGotDwarves]

Mount and Blade/Warband would have been impossible in the 90s.

Games like X3, which is freelancer on crack.

Cortex Command would be impossible without modern tech.

A lot of games I consider good have only become possible in the recent years because of technical limitations.

[zchris13]

What are you talking about it would have been out the door before we got to 3-D!  We would be playing Dwarf Fortress 3: Some stupid plot gimic, and it would totally suck.  But that wasn't what you were talking about.

And shut up I'm not even sure what people are arguing about.  It's kind of shiny, like fireworks.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Mount and Blade/Warband would have been impossible in the 90s.

Games like X3, which is freelancer on crack.

Cortex Command would be impossible without modern tech.

A lot of games I consider good have only become possible in the recent years because of technical limitations.

Hm, that brings up an interesting point... Of course, to tie this back into the original topic, none of those games are from the mainstream market.  Cortex Command is a Digital Distribution only indie game with no publisher and M&B and X3 are both from small European developers and aren't very popular.  They were also all designed for the PC which is a rare occurrence these days.  What I wanted was to compare the latest big name "great" games with the big name games of  the recent past.  Not just the nineties versus the 00s necessarily but even games made during this latest generation of consoles versus games made before that or even just the previous gen.  The titles that are widely considered good these days are nothing compared to similar ones from the past and it seems like we've had fewer classics the farther along we get.  I think a good deal of the problem is rooted in the rising popularity of cross platform development. 

I think I may know where the disconnect could be coming from with those that think games have gotten better.  Console games have definitely gotten better over time.  People keep trying to say snes games sucked compared to the games of Today like that's proof that modern games are better than anything in the past.  They're thinking in terms of console games.  I think the majority of people who think games have gotten worse are those who primarily played PC games in the past and those who think they've gotten better are primarily console gamers, because in that case they're both entirely correct from their own viewpoint.  Over time consoles have continued to improve by in large without deviation.  As they've caught up to computers the games have gotten progressively better at least by most standards.  Sure they won't make you better at reading like all the JRPGs that came out before the popularization of full voice acting did, but console games have in general definitely gotten better.

PC gaming on the hand is a different story.  Consoles have always appealed to a different audience than PCs.  Sure there are those that use both (like me) but consoles have always been the more laid back and simplistic platform.  They're cheaper and easier to use, and give you less options and freedom that might lead to confusion.  You can also lie down while using them.  This was just fine for PC gamers whether they liked them or not when console games were console games and PC games were PC games.  But as the industry became more of a well, industry, and things became more and more exclusively about the neverending quest for more money faster, it became clear that consoles were the cash cow.  The simpler and more accessible something is, the more potential users it has.  PCs are less accessible as gaming platforms than consoles.  Consoles have more potential users, and are thus more profitable.  For anyone who's less interested in making games than they are in making money off of games the console market is the place to be.  Modern consoles having the internet just takes away PCs' biggest advantage.  So now days the big names make console games.  Sometimes they port them to PC but they're PC games, they're console games ported to PC.  This I think is where the disconnect is.  Console gamers are correct in thinking that their games have gotten better because they have.  PC gamers are correct int thinking their games have gotten worse because they aren't really getting PC games anymore, at least from the big names.  They're getting console games that have been ported to PC but were never designed with the platform as a major concern.  Or if they were they were completely redesigned when EA bought out Bioware.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Then what people are really complaining about here is the marketing (reviewing process) and popularization of games for the consumer market and the "consolization" of PC gaming.

Games, and PC games, have not become shit over time. The industry has just changed. Yes, the games I mentioned for the most part are not mainstream titles, but such gameplay in each of those and my other favourite games would have been impossible just a few years ago and remains impossible on consoles. Also as I mentioned in my previous post - how much of "popular culture" in general can legitimately be described as "good" as in, standing the test of time. Pop culture only cares about ADD shiny and they will move onto the next 'big thing'.

The internet and services such as steam, impulse, gamersgate, and such have allowed amazing games to hit the market that otherwise would not have seen the light of day beyond some nerd's dream. May I once again point to this fine forum we frequent? Any geek with enough free time can learn to program his own game! When I (get off my lawn) was a child, we still had to pay hundreds of dollars to learn how to program in Qbasic.

Likewise, I bought a Wii for my family and my parents spend more time on it than I do. The spirit of consoles, in my belief, is to bring people gaming together... under one roof for a good time. Cheaply and easily -relatively compared to PC. The technology for a wii (don't laugh) plus the tech in xbox and ps3 likewise didn't exist a few years ago. Advancements in gaming in PC and console have gone back and forth. Unfortunately, the gaming industry, like all others, suffers from name brands and a flood of mediocrity for profit.

If you're just bitching about the status of gaming, then I'm going to venture that you aren't looking hard enough for good games and just want something to complain about. We're at the point that you could play a different game every minute of every day and not play them all, when many of them are lovingly crafted experiences to enjoy.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Wow, we actually agree on some stuff for a change...  But um... modern consoles are definitely a huge step away from gaming under one roof.  Lots of modern console games are designed to encourage people to each own one copy and one console and to play them online.

[subject name here]

civilization 4 is pretty much better then every single game you liked back in the 90's. sid meier lays golden eggs that firaxis then fries up for us to eat and it is delicious

king's bounty the legend is better then all your favorite 90's games too. and it's probably mainstream in russia because russians have better taste then all us combined

team fortress 2 is better then your 90's gems and portal wouldn't of been as good without a 3rd dimension

peggle is better then every single snes genesis ps1 n64 game combined and it's so mainstream that even old people play it, it's so good games are now measured in peggles.  i bet they don't measure games in chrono triggers anywhere huh

i'm pretty much just going down my steam's game list here listing everything good.

[Grendus]

Games are definitely getting better. Honestly. If you were to browse through the catalog of the SNES the whole thing, the amount of good games would be quite low. Compared to the catalog of say, the Xbox 360. There are more Good and okay games, less GREAT titles, but there are much less total shit games.

I'm a firm believer that the average game today is much better than the average game of yesteryear.

Even when people give me examples of amazing older games, (Like the OP.) those were standout titles. I can list a bunch of great modern games.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying review standards aren't slipping. All I'm saying is games are getting better.

Sure... name a few modern games that are as good as the gems of the nineties.

Umm, how about pretty much anything Valve has released since the Source engine (which pretty much only removes the original Half Life and Team Fortress). Deus Ex was released in 2000, so it counts. If you like third person shooters, the Ratchet and Clank series is incredible. I have over 100 hours played on Borderlands, which is a great game if you're like me and love to play around with different weapons. Pretty much anything Firaxis makes is going to cause orgasms among the strategy crowd. The original WoW (the expansions have gone downhill imo) was a masterpiece for the MMO crowd. Before that, Warcraft 3 (released 2002) was one of the best, most balanced, and most moddable RTS titles ever made. Then we have FFX (they never made a sequel, FFX-2 was a bad dream caused by Al Gore and bad chili) which had an awesome story and pretty good gameplay.

The list goes on. Great games are made every year. The average quality has improved significantly. I remember games from the 90's, and while there were gems (god I wish I could find an emulator to play 16 bit windows games, I miss CotW) there were also games that... well, let's not open that can of worms. Overall, however, games are better now than they used to be.