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Author Topic: [0.34.XX] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.2 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!  (Read 48633 times)

They Got Leader

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #75 on: September 10, 2010, 09:24:34 pm »
Is there a read me?

I am having some issues with getting my dwarves to train, and what they train in.
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Shukaro

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2010, 12:44:42 pm »
The best way to use these workshops is, first, make sure that the dwarves you want to train have the appropriate labor enabled (Don't need to do this for the combat and social skills) then use the workshop profile feature of the workshops to restrict usage of the workshop to only the dwarf(s) you want to train and add the skill-task you want to train on repeat. You'll also want to construct a printer's workshop, which is used to produce the reagents for the majority of the reactions. The medical ward makes it's own reagents (cadavers) out of meat and/or vermin remains, library uses books (made at the printer's workshop out of paper (also from that workshop) and leather), the training dummy and workshop use tablets (made at the printer's workshop). As for what skills each reaction trains, their names should be fairly self-explanatory (practice swords, study prose, practice mining, etc). You can also forgo using workshop profiles, so that someone will always be training in the workshop during their downtime.
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Dwarven Higher Learning Mod | Alternative Skill Training

Jake

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2010, 01:28:38 pm »
A few more thoughts for the next version.

1. A single training workshop for every skill is rather unrealistic, and would get cluttered quickly, so why not assign the reaction to the most relevant workshop? As far as something like mining or fishing goes, I'd simply have a textbook on them and encourage players to set the 'reading room' workshop being used to train them to be open only to dwarves between Dabbling and Novice.

2. If you're adopting my earlier suggestion of skill-specific texts, I wouldn't go for one text for every skill. Individual texts should be involved in more than one reaction each, and some skills would require multiple different texts to train. Texts about woodwork and mathematics would be used to train a seige engineer, but texts on geology and mathematics (plus metalworking once metal mechanisms are back in) would train a mechanic, and a text on 'plantlife' or something could be used to train both farmers and herbalists.

3. The training-dummy workshop should use be built from unit of wood, one rope and one bag of sand, and be renamed the gym bag. ;) On a more serious note, I'd ditch the reactions that train the Fighter and Archer skills, as they represent things you can't learn just by pummelling a dummy. A 'military history' tablet makes sense, however.
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Quote from: GrizzleBridges on June 06, 2012, 04:15:22 am
Never used Dwarf Therapist, mods or tilesets in all the years I've been playing.
I think Toady's confusing interface better simulates the experience of a bunch of disorganised drunken dwarves running a fort.

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Deon

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2010, 02:49:29 pm »
Quote
2. If you're adopting my earlier suggestion of skill-specific texts, I wouldn't go for one text for every skill. Individual texts should be involved in more than one reaction each, and some skills would require multiple different texts to train. Texts about woodwork and mathematics would be used to train a seige engineer, but texts on geology and mathematics (plus metalworking once metal mechanisms are back in) would train a mechanic, and a text on 'plantlife' or something could be used to train both farmers and herbalists.
That's a nice idea actually. I have tomes for each skill to read in "Library" in genesis, but some mix would be fun. It would require a separate wiki page though, to avoid the confusion and spoiler the things up a bit :).

Quote
3. The training-dummy workshop should use be built from unit of wood, one rope and one bag of sand, and be renamed the gym bag. ;) On a more serious note, I'd ditch the reactions that train the Fighter and Archer skills, as they represent things you can't learn just by pummelling a dummy. A 'military history' tablet makes sense, however.
Well, the general "fighter" should be trained along with combat skills, but because we can't do that yet, I would suggest it's a "lore" for now too. And I use a bucket, a wooden log and a cloth (for a bucket-headed dummy :P). A sand bag would make more sense though, but whatever.
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Jake

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2010, 05:16:14 pm »
I'm pretty sure 'Fighter' and 'Archer' are supposed to represent skill in spotting feints, recognising an opponent's weaknesses and adapting your repertoire of moves to the situation. You can't learn that from katas or a workout on the heavy bag, you know?
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Quote from: GrizzleBridges on June 06, 2012, 04:15:22 am
Never used Dwarf Therapist, mods or tilesets in all the years I've been playing.
I think Toady's confusing interface better simulates the experience of a bunch of disorganised drunken dwarves running a fort.

Black Powder Firearms - Superior firepower, realistic manufacturing and rocket launchers!

Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2010, 05:30:06 pm »
Well, apparently I'm an effing retard, because I can't get the workshops to show up in game. I have the Librarian position and can appoint it, all files in the right place, but no workshops to be seen. What the heck am I doing wrong?  (Yes, did gen a new world)

Relevant parts of entity_default in spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Shukaro

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2010, 09:35:18 pm »
Hmm, did you copy the other files from the OP to the appropriately named files in the main DF folder, with the header? (Looks like you did.) Do Civilization Forge's workshops show up? Does installing it on a clean DF copy work for you? Could you upload your raw/objects folders from the main folder and the world folder?
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Quietust

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2010, 11:35:13 pm »
I haven't done much modding myself, but what happens if you use a CORPSE as a reagent for a reaction? Will it take any available corpse, or will it obey ethics and only take a killed wild animal? If it works, you could theoretically use [REAGENT:B:1:CORPSE:NONE:NONE:NONE][UNROTTEN][PRESERVE_REAGENT] instead of [REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_CADAVER:NONE:NONE] + [PRODUCT:75:1:TOY:ITEM_CADAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:B:NONE] for the medical training reactions, so instead of simply having a random chance of the cadaver disappearing, you can keep practicing on the same corpse until it starts to rot. Of course, I'm not quite sure how far [UNROTTEN] goes - while it'd probably reject a corpse that has started to rot, it might start accepting it again once it turns into a (partial) skeleton...
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2010, 03:42:37 am »
Quote from: Shukaro on September 16, 2010, 09:35:18 pm
Hmm, did you copy the other files from the OP to the appropriately named files in the main DF folder, with the header? (Looks like you did.) Do Civilization Forge's workshops show up? Does installing it on a clean DF copy work for you? Could you upload your raw/objects folders from the main folder and the world folder?
Yes, CivForge works correctly. That's what really stumps me. I tried installing on my vanilla DF, but there I failed horribly and I was on to testing on CivForge before I realized my first mistake (gen a new world, idiot). By that time I got the noble position to work by putting all the files in the right places and fixing the entity file. I even tried putting all the entries by similar entries (all reactions in one place, all permitted buildings in one place and so on), but no go.

World and save objects link
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 03:44:12 am by Moonshine Fox »
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lastofthelight

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2010, 02:02:55 pm »
I'm a bit unclear....how exactly does training weaponsmithing work with this mod? I just tried it out for the first time, and my carpenter went out and grabbed my most expensive weapon and my most expensive type of metal and has brought it back to this workshop, and I'm afraid to unpause.
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Shukaro

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2010, 09:31:28 am »
How weaponsmithing and armorsmithing work, is that they grab a weapon, a metal bar, and a tablet, and then work on the bar. There's a slight chance of the bar or tablet being destroyed, but they're usually fine. You'll also want to mess with the workshop's profile settings if you want specific dwarves to use it.

Also, Moonshine, your problem is you forgot to put the headers that say the files name at the top of the new files.
For example:
Code: [Select]
building_library

[OBJECT:BUILDING]

BLAH BLAH BLAG
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 09:41:02 am by Shukaro »
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2010, 09:48:46 am »
Quote from: Shukaro on September 19, 2010, 09:31:28 am
Also, Moonshine, your problem is you forgot to put the headers that say the files name at the top of the new files.
For example:
Code: [Select]
building_library

[OBJECT:BUILDING]

BLAH BLAH BLAG
O.o

*stares in disbelief*
I could've SWORN I did that! Oh well, thanks for pointing out the VERY obvious fail xD
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Shukaro

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2010, 09:50:34 am »
Hehe, believe me, I've done stuff like that too, very annoying.
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2010, 05:35:31 am »
Quote from: Shukaro on September 19, 2010, 09:50:34 am
Hehe, believe me, I've done stuff like that too, very annoying.
Yup, that did it, of course. Thanks mate :D
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fledermaus

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Re: [0.31.X] Dwarven Higher Learning Mod v2.1 - Menaces with Spikes of Paper!
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2010, 01:07:11 pm »
Hi.
This mod looks really cool and your sales-pitch was quite funny, thanks for both.
I'm pretty new to DF and even newer to modding it, so I had a question about the install.

I'm using Deon's Genesis. In entity_default.txt there are some duplicate reactions (such as [PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_SWIMMING] and the weapon skills) and buildings (LIBRARY and TRAINING_DUMMY). I assume this will cause problems but I don't know for sure.

If this is a problem, can I change the name of your reactions and buildings (maybe adding a number or letter at the end) and get both sets of reactions/buildings (yours and Deon's), or do the names have to be the way they are? I understand that I would have to change those names wherever they occur in your files as well as change the file names and headers.

If that won't work is there some way to make sure your buildings and reaction's override those in Genesis? I really don't know much about DF modding.

Thanks for any help.
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