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[Grakelin]

Were serfs given crossbows? They seem like they'd be expensive. They'd probably still end up using hunting bows, and only professional soldiers would have crossbows. If I was Pope, that's what I would do.

Invade the world with men with crossbows.

goddamit people, the pope was  out to banning armies

The Crusades disagrees

[Jackrabbit]

Do I get a fief if I swear allegiance to you early enough?

Is that like, a pipe? I am so getting in on this.

More seriously, if I had any training as a scribe or someone who isn't going to be stuck with the backbreaking labor and ridiculous hours, I'd be in like a shot.

[eerr]

Were serfs given crossbows? They seem like they'd be expensive. They'd probably still end up using hunting bows, and only professional soldiers would have crossbows. If I was Pope, that's what I would do.

Invade the world with men with crossbows.

goddamit people, the pope was  out to banning armies

The Crusades disagrees

Who sent the armies, the kings, or the popes?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Pope Innocent II may or may not have banned the use of crossbows against Christians. The document wording is in dispute, but it is still Vatican Law. The Pope called the Crusade, the kings gave their armies. Any who refused faced excommunication for their entire nation. And then the other catholic nations would raze it to the ground and kill everyone there for the spoils of war.

[Jackrabbit]

The kings sent the armies because they were scared of the retaliation from the Papacy if they ignored Papal mandate. They sent the armies because the Pope didn't give them much choice not to.

I mean, if you ignore the Pope enough times then he excommunicates you and half your cities are up in arms and you need to be very careful about taxes for like a dozen turns. Not worth it.

[andrea]

while I won't enter in the debate of whether longbows were better than crossbows or not, I will say that using crossbows is MUCH easier than learning to use longbows. As somebody put it, to train a longbowman you have to start with his grandfather. crossbows were both easier to use ( accuracy wouldn't be perfect, but still easier than bows) and capable of piercing the best armors. Barely trained peasants COULD kill knights with crossbows. People had less problems with longbowmen because they actually had to train years to become somewhat effective, making it at least a bit more honorable to die by one of their arrows.

just opinions however, I only have high school history and a bit of history channel on my side, like most of us.

edit: stop posting!

[Cthulhu]

I'm not going to have a debate about medieval weaponry with you because neither of us are actually experts.

Longbows penetrating armour is shit I learned in high school history class,  though.

They also teach that medieval swords weighed 50 pounds and plate armor was so heavy and cumbersome they had to lift knights onto horses with a crane.

[Spectre]

Help! I'm being repressed!

I see what you did there.

[sonerohi]

Knights wouldn't have used bows or crossbows in war anyways. The most honorable way to kill someone is with his own weapon.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Psssf. Everyone knows knights were the tanks of the era and only feared samurai with katanas from anime shows.

[Aklyon]

A skilled crossbowman shot ten times slower than a skilled bowman.

but 10 times as many crossbowmen takes a lot less time to train.

[Creaca]

If Knights where like the tanks of the Era, which makes a peasant with an arbalest something like quasi-trained militia man with an RPG.

Well, that isn't a perfect metaphor. I guess Knights would have to be more like armored Humvees or lightly armored APCs.

[Jackrabbit]

Yeah, I'm not sure trying to draw comparisons between warriors who exists hundreds of years ago and modern day technology is the cleverest thing to do. It certainly doesn't make you look clever. Knights are not comparable tanks any more than they're comparable to fighter jets or stealth bombers.

[Creaca]

If the shoe fits...

[Grakelin]

The Pope raised the serf armies during Crusades by telling the people that God would absolve them of any sin so long as they joined the war effort.