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Author Topic: Problems with Military  (Read 1463 times)

Conflict

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Problems with Military
« on: July 03, 2010, 03:42:22 pm »

No matter the amount of wiki reading/checking about the forum, I just can't seem to understand. Sure, I've heard a lot of good things about the new system about how much freedom it gives a player, but gawd it sure is complicated to figure out. So here's my problem, pretty basic one.

I have three assigned dwarfs to my military called the 'Polished Lashes'. No matter the amount of toying I do with their options, they refuse to train or stand guard and just dump items for me.

Here's some of the settings I have.

  • I have a militia commander set as a noble.
  • There's two other dwarfs in the squad (captain making the 3rd)
    • On the Active/Training option, I have Train
    • I have a burrow right outside my main gate called 'Frontlines'. It should be used by my military to defend if need be.
      • Their schedule is set to train all year.
      • They should sleep only in the barrack at need.

    So really, I need my military to begin training. I've already had one fort lost to the merciless goblins, and I don't want it to happen again.
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Ghundio

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 05:14:47 pm »

Currently the training order is bugged and the only way to get your dwarfs to train is by setting them to inactive and then, as long as there not lazy, they will initiate individual combat drills.
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Yandapanda

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 05:23:10 pm »

You might want to put in an Archery Target, Armor Stand or Weapon Stand. In the building prefs for one of those three, there is a 't' for Train option. My guys love standing around an Archery Target waiting for dodging drills.
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Conflict

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 10:34:15 pm »

Ugh, no luck. Can someone give me a step by step solution as to how to make a functional military? From scratch would be best.
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existent

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2010, 10:39:43 pm »

Ugh, no luck. Can someone give me a step by step solution as to how to make a functional military? From scratch would be best.

In 31.X that's pretty much next to impossible, at least until Toady fixes it for the next release. (hopefully.)
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Conflict

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2010, 10:44:22 pm »

Oh, military is 100% broken then? (Aside from the ability to kill at a moments notice). Ugh, time to spam traps!
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existent

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2010, 10:51:32 pm »

Oh, military is 100% broken then? (Aside from the ability to kill at a moments notice). Ugh, time to spam traps!

Well, not 100%, but probably 80%. Whether or not it works really is a matter of luck. Fortunately, Toady has promised to both fix the military and nerf traps in the (again, hopefully) near future.
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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 11:00:42 pm »

Near future, alright. Well thanks. Actually knowing the military is broken is a lot nicer than not, and trying to uselessly get my men to train. Well I agree. Let's hope he fixes the military soon! I can't afford another defeat to the goblins.
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existent

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 11:02:46 pm »

Near future, alright. Well thanks. Actually knowing the military is broken is a lot nicer than not, and trying to uselessly get my men to train. Well I agree. Let's hope he fixes the military soon! I can't afford another defeat to the goblins.

I'm pretty sure he intends to correct the military issues for the next release.

From the Devlog:
Quote
Now I'll be back to combat/archery bugs for a bit, then we'll do a release.
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billw

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 07:44:19 am »

Its really more like 25-50% broken. I can get a fully equipped squad of axe dwarves, get them trained up (by leaving them inactive so they do individual training), and get them to massacre ambush level goblins and kobolds. I even got my crossbow dwarves to start training last night using the assigned ammo and everything (it took a bit of fiddling: I can try and remember my process if anyone is interested). I haven't tried them in battle yet.
Its easiest just to stick with un-ranged weapons.
1/ First make sure you have all the required equipment: a full set of armor for each squad member you intend to have (helm, breast plate/mail shirt, greaves, 2x gauntlets, 2x boots, shield), and a weapon, and spares, and training weapons. I normally make 1.5x as many of everything as I need for when I take losses.
2/ make sure you have Arsenal dwarf assigned, with an office, and make sure he is finished creating the equipment manifests. If he has been assigned, has an office and is set to no job then you can be pretty sure he is finished doing inventory.
3/ Now you should choose the soldiers to use in military (make sure non of them have the "don't do more work than necessary" trait), easiest to do this in Dwarf Therapist, then give them all a nickname so you know they are to be your military.
4/ Save game! Before you ever enter the military screen, but once you think you are ready to. Just as a precaution, if you mess up you can start fresh.
5/ Go into military screen: create a uniform (work it out its not too hard if you are used to the DF interface), specify each item (one of each of helm, breast plate/mail shirt, greaves, gauntlets, boots, shield, and specify the material for each one (I like all mine in exactly the same armour so I always assign either iron or steel, but apparently it also works with unspecified materials, or general ones, e.g. metal/leather). Also add a standard weapon and a training weapon of the same types, e.g. a steel axe and a wooden training axe. [edit] Switch it from "over clothes" to "replace clothes".
6/ Still in military screen: create a new squad using the uniform you just created. Assign all the squad members that you previously gave your military nick name to.
7/ Still in military screen: go into the schedule screen, remove/cancel ALL orders.
8/ Leave military screen. You should be done now. Your new squad should pick up equipment as it is assigned to them by the Arsenal dwarf. If you get them to move to a location you should see them pick up the rest of the equipment they need then muster at a location (at least the ones that aren't sleeping/eating/slacking will anyway). Commands are given through the squad menu (press 's' from the main menu). Remember to cancel orders once they are complete, even after your squad kills its target the order is still active, you have to cancel it manually, or replace it with another order. Your dwarves will starve/dehydrate to death without leaving their post, so remember to cancel orders!!

Hope this helps..

Oh, I didn't mention: I don't even bother with a military till I have the industry to create at least an iron set of armor and weapons, and have at least 50 dwarves. For most of the first 3 years or so I use purely trap based defences, and build a big wall around my fort entrance with a single raising bridge, and a couple more raising bridges in the main entrance corridor. I'm not confident in the military code as it is to start creating one and then try and expand or disband it later. I just try and do all the set-up and creation at one time, when I am fully ready, then leave it the fuck alone (as someone else mentioned).
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 09:08:36 am by billw »
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Yocas

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2010, 09:04:50 am »

I haven't played DF in a couple of weeks due to the major bugs haunting the military system and the fear of getting attacked by goblins with my legendary warriors fighting them off with training swords.

I really hope he fixes it soon.  :(
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billw

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 09:11:34 am »

Are there bugs which cause them to not use the best weapon available when fighting? Cos I always give my axe dwarves a metal axe AND a training axe. They don't seem to get training injuries (but mostly they do individual combat drills anyway), and they seem to kill goblins pretty fast. IF there isn't a specific bug relating to this then we shouldn't add FUD to the mix, its already confusing enough.
Summary: in my experience, as long as they have the equipment on them, they will fight correctly, except for the archers.
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Starver

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2010, 09:46:48 am »

Excuse me if I missed it in the above text, but I think changing the training requirements so that they aren't waiting around for all ten members (that they don't have) in their squad to participate might also be an important step.

Not sure if it's the way it's supposed to be done, but I do something like "e"dit one of the Training items in the schedule, mark down to (say) one less squad member needed than there are in total.  You can (c)opy that line and (p)aste that into all other relevant Training items, to save time repeating.


So far, I've had success in training up squads (though no success in setting up "weekend warrior" squads, getting decent worksdwarfs to enhance military skills during downtime, they tended to stay training and stop doing their normal work at least in the .03 or .04 version of the game where I tried this) and also eventually managed to recruit emergency militia at one point.  [/i]However[/i] when I've had a professional military force assigned, I've not had anyone to attack (wildlife excepted, who always run off-table quicker than I can catch them) for the duration of whatever short-lived experimental fortress (max 4 years) I've ended up making prior to hitting some bug or other reason to move on, while the emergency militia has been in response to actual invasions/incursions (usually within the first year and a half) that they were total ill-equipped to handle (at least under my oversight and leadership).

It has made me wonder if the NPC invaders have an inkling as to my military strength, although I'm sure it's a more prosaic explanation, such as that by by putting resources into developing a defence force, I've managed to neglect 'wealth making' functions and thus delay my attractiveness.

(Although the fortress I most got attacked on was one where I was mega-engineering the draining of the underground sea of magma.  There was smoothing and fortification of external walls, but the combined death-toll from industrial accidents/environment, those itinerant members of the subterranean fauna (a.k.a. 'Flipping Bleepards') and a continual (if migrant-replenished) mortality count from mood-spiralling meant that very little haulable wealth was actually created.  Inclusive of food and drink.  And yet still I was deemed an attractive prize by a number of units of homonid harassers.  And yet the fortress lived on as long as I played it, and the save must still exist somewhere...)
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billw

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Re: Problems with Military
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2010, 10:19:35 am »

Excuse me if I missed it in the above text, but I think changing the training requirements so that they aren't waiting around for all ten members (that they don't have) in their squad to participate might also be an important step.

I just turn off all their schedules (delete the entries). This causes the dwarves to train on their own time as long as they don't have the "doesn't do more work than required" trait. Even my marksdwarves were training. They still get legendary within a year or so. They do drills very often. I tried to choose ones with traits like "strives for perfection" "likes schedules" "disciplined" cos they sounded like they would make good soldiers. Maybe different trait sets have a complex effect on their will to train, it would sure be nice if this was the case.
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