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[Akroma]

title sais it all

a race that usually lives deep under the mountains should have no problem sleeping on a bed that is only slightly harder than a wooden bed (which aren't any comfortable anyway, seing that there is no matrasse, pillow, etc)

it seems a lot more realistic to be able to have stone beds

[Metal Chao]

But imbalanced.
With stone beds, you hardly need wood for anything.

[Name Lips]

quote:Originally posted by Metal Chao:
<STRONG>But imbalanced.
With stone beds, you hardly need wood for anything.</STRONG>

So?

There's tons of stuff in the game you don't need. And plenty of stuff (like the underground crops) that have been completely invented to make an underground civilization possible. Why make an arbitrary and pointless link to the world above? Game balance? Why in this one instance should we worry about "game balance" when it's not worried about anywhere else? It's largely a sandbox, where you set challenges for yourself and try to meet them.

[Tahin]

Stone beds, while dwarven enough, certainly, just seem... uncomfortable. As I see it, having to make beds out of wood is largely an annoyance. I suggest the ability to also make hammocks from cloth.  Hammocks would work nicely, as they could be made out of pig tails or silk, and thus would be easy for a starting fortress in a tree-less area to make. Hammocks are just as realistic as wooden beds, and would add a serious reason to get a clothier's shop up earlier than usual.

[Metal Chao]

But if you didn't have to go above ground ever, there's no need to worry about overground animals or cave adaption D:

[Lightman]

This suggestion has come up several times. At first, I thought wooden beds were a bit limiting, but I don't think I like the idea of stone beds. I also don't think stone thrones should function as well as wooden chairs in a dining room.

Cloth hammocks, on the other hand, or even piles of straw/hay sound reasonable (though they would not make the dwarves as happy as real beds).

[Aquillion]

I think bedrolls made from cloth or leather are a better idea.

A dwarf with a bedroll can sleep anywhere.  Military dwarves in particular need them.  A bedroll doesn't make a dwarf quite as happy as a real bedroom, but it's good enough.

Also, possibly make cloth or leather blankets.  For full happiness, a dwarf would need both a bed and a blanket.  With that, I could see stone beds being allowed -- stone beds would be less effective than wood ones, and almost ineffective without a blanket, whereas wooden beds could be used blanketless if necessary.

In general, cloth and leather are as hard or harder to produce in large quantities than wood, so bed solutions that depend on them would work.

Of course, high-quality blankets dyed in favorite colors could be used to raise happiness, too.

[Tahin]

You know how dwarves will literally sleep anywhere until you get a barracks set up? Now imagine if all your important military dwarves did the same because you gave them bedrolls. I say we keep bedrolls on hold until dwarves are smart enough not to lie down and go to sleep in front of an approaching band of goblins. Assuming, that is, that goblins ever actually approach...

[Bien]

Well actually, wooden beds are quite comfortable, when I stay in Mindanao, we always have to sleep on the wooden floor.

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Tahin:
<STRONG>You know how dwarves will literally sleep anywhere until you get a barracks set up? Now imagine if all your important military dwarves did the same because you gave them bedrolls. I say we keep bedrolls on hold until dwarves are smart enough not to lie down and go to sleep in front of an approaching band of goblins. Assuming, that is, that goblins ever actually approach...</STRONG>

Well, that's easy enough to fix.  Just have them only sleep in the barracks as long as one exists, like now; the bedroll will just let them do so relatively happily as long as there's a bed.

There could also be a fortress-wide option to let them sleep anywhere...  maybe they could be taught to set up 'camps' and set one dwarf to keep watch while the others sleep, so he can wake them up if an enemy arrives.  That would certainly help defense.

Oh, I just had an idea for another thread:  Guard rooms.  But I'll post it there.

[slMagnvox]

I've suggested before, and will suggest again, that bedrooms ought to be assignable from other furniture besides beds.  Furniture like cabinets, coffers, rugs (I really want rugs).

Beds are only made of wood.  Stone beds alerady exist, every tile of your fortress, hah.  Sleeping on the floor is sleeping on a stone bed.  However, if we could install a cabinet in a room, assign it a bedroom and then give it to a dwarf .. they'll sleep there and get a nice thought about sleeping in a bedroom along with a thought about sleeping on the floor.  Also, gives him a place to store things, like discarded shoes and coins.

Oh, and rugs made of cloth/silk/leather would make the best wooden bed substitutes, in my opinion .. and stay kinda balanced, cause making leather and cloth is a little more complex than either masonry or carpentry.  And they serve other, decorative purposes .. and maybe help with dwarves spamming mud.

[DamnedChoir]

I think stone beds are a good idea, however, they should require hide/leather or cloth in addition to stone.

The rationale being that the frame may be made of stone, nice and sturdy, and then a nice mattress with blankets and pillows atop, otherwise it'd be torture to sleep on.

Personally, though, I've slept on a marble bed. The frame was heavy marble with lovely pillars, then two HUGE thick mattresses sat onto the frame with big blankets and pillows, it was comfortable.

Dunno why so many people seem to think the idea of Dwarves crafting such a thing is blasphemy.

[SquashMonster]

How about adding both stone beds and bedrolls?  A stone bed isn't actually better than the ground, but it gives the dwarf a place to sleep.  A bedroll makes up for sleeping on the ground, but they'll still be unhappy about not having a room to sleep in.  Having both, however, is as good as a wooden bed.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Obviously, this whole thing is just a big abstraction.  Sleeping isn't any fun without any cloth, no matter whether your bed is made of stone or of wood.  Maybe the dwarves carry their bedroll with them to the site?

When I lived in a concrete-floored garage when I was poor and bedless, I learned the point of beds: they keep that stone floor from sucking all the heat through your mattress.  It doesn't matter to those of us from industrialized nations, with abundant climate control; I lay my mattresses on the floor now that I live in an apartment building.  But even with a lot of cloth, a bed would provide good insulation for dwarves sleeping on cold rock.  (That insulation is primarily the layer of static air underneath their bedroll, not wood or stone.)

[qalnor]

quote:Originally posted by DamnedChoir:
<STRONG>Dunno why so many people seem to think the idea of Dwarves crafting such a thing is blasphemy.</STRONG>

Well, in fairness the people who think it is blasphemy I think mostly take issue with the notion of someone just sleeping on a rock. I don't know for sure, but I get the distinct impression that the original post is not referring to building mattresses and pillows. Rather, he is simply referring to not having to bother with wood.

Which brings me to the next point, there are people who don't like the idea not because it's 'blasphemy', but because it is 'unbalanced'. I have mixed feelings about this, frankly, because the game isn't any where near balanced as-is.

That having been said, I'm not entirely fond of making wood completely purposeless. It only has a few important functions, but they are moderately indispensable functions, and getting rid of them would eliminate the need to ever need to visit the surface.

The game really isn't balanced though, at this point you can avoid all the dangers of the outside and be able to get trees, so being able to make stone beds would have no 'real' effect on balance.

Thinking down the road, though, I do think that there needs to be things to keep dwarves wanting to leave their fortress occasionally. They're a mountaindwelling race, but they shouldn't be able to seal the entrance to their cave and frolic gleefully in darkness for all of eternity.