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[Neonivek]

sadly that happen atm only in wg.

wg... wg...

Wicked Games!?!

Dang I knew I should have delt with them earlier and their wicked game creating abilities.

[Mel_Vixen]

  WG = world gen

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Troll is a Scandinavian word for magic or witchcraft. trolls were mythic creatures that came up in Christian times, and they refered to everything heathen, from dwarves to elves, but mainly to giants and witches. Giants in old Norse mythology are also more than big people, they often have several heads or arms, etc., much like the trolls in later folk tales.

I don't have a problem with seeing trolls and dwarves coexisting as different creatures, but their existence in mythology is not contemporary to each other. maybe trolls could be called ogres, instead, the word ogre simply designates a man-eating, virgin-devouring, or child-eating monster in fairy tales and carries no other etymological, religious  or mythological connotations.

[Untelligent]

Given the mythological background of trolls and that TVTropes page, I'd say that "troll" fits these DF creatures perfectly. All our trolls really will be different.

'course, I doubt it'll be the only name for them. Kinda like how the current HFS names can be a whole bunch of different things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

shade, demon, devil, banshee, spirit, etc.

[Neonivek]

Trying to have a mythologically correct setting in just about ANY setting is practically impossible.

Heck get Greek mythology alone and the inconsistancies will be so great you might go insane.

[Urist McDepravity]

Hmm, didn't DF have trolls already as goblin's minions tho? I'm sure I saw these during sieges and wild ones in underground.

[Cruxador]

Trying to have a mythologically correct setting in just about ANY setting is practically impossible.

Heck get Greek mythology alone and the inconsistancies will be so great you might go insane.

Not really. You underestimate the resilience of sanity, and the degree to which people care about inconsistency. Also, with Toady's randomness, everything can be consistent with any of the stories, though each set of general themes requires its own work.

Hmm, didn't DF have trolls already as goblin's minions tho? I'm sure I saw these during sieges and wild ones in underground.

Yep. Perhaps they will be replaced by night creatures. I'd not be sad to see it happen.

[Neonivek]

Not really. You underestimate the resilience of sanity, and the degree to which people care about inconsistency

What not really? Your not making any sense given the scenario not only requires someone to care about the inconsistancies but attempt to do something accurately.

So in what way isn't attempting to accurately put something together that in it of its very nature cannot be put together accurately not a sign of insanity?

Sheesh man 

Don't go messin with my statements Cruxador 

(which of course is possibly the most polite way for me to respond to someone who basically just up and went "No one cares")

[Cruxador]

Not really. You underestimate the resilience of sanity, and the degree to which people care about inconsistency

What not really? Your not making any sense given the scenario not only requires someone to care about the inconsistancies but attempt to do something accurately.

So in what way isn't attempting to accurately put something together that in it of its very nature cannot be put together accurately not a sign of insanity?

Sheesh man 

Don't go messin with my statements Cruxador 

(which of course is possibly the most polite way for me to respond to someone who basically just up and went "No one cares")

Conveying something accurately would maintain inconsistencies. Accuracy is not inherently mutually inclusive with consistency. In this particular instance (that is, with regards to mythology) people who are heavily interested in the base subject are clearly okay with some amount of inconsistency.

However, in this case there is a broad window for any given thing wherein an implementation could be considered accurate. Because of the possibility of random elements, the implementation can be broadened such that it fills a greater portion of that window. However, the most important part is themes. That's what mythology is about. The themes that convey ideas or attitudes or whatever it happens to be. Again, there's a bit of a window, but there's not much by way of inconsistency there, and if the implementation is accurate to the themes, everything tends to work out well.

My apologies if my statement seemed offensive to you.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

the fact that df trolls suddenly became all different creatures demonstrates an attempt at consistency and accuracy with their mythological persona, my objection is not with the depiction of trolls, but with the choice of name, for trolls can designate any magic creatures, including dwarves and elves, only classified as evil because of christian demonization, while ogre would designate a more specific yet still very broad definition of night creature, that is specifically evil and often antropophagus (with only very recent cgi exceptions)

[Mel_Vixen]

I actually thought on eggs (Df talk 10 - go listen to it guys and maids) a bit. Make them a "living" creature but unmoving creature. You start with yolk, white and shell. Reduce the the white and yolk and substitute that by outgrowing bones etc. over time. After all squishi stuff is gone detach the shell and let the Creature break free like big creatures from a cage. The detach mechanism might also be usefull for antlers etc. A egg shouldnt though turn into egg corpse if its not fertilized, cooked or whatever.

edit: outgrowing bones might need another mode "Non-existent" apart from size because even on size 0 stuff isdisplayed and target-able right? Also make eggs somehow dropable like items for itemcorpse. Hmmm such an egg code would work for living births too just grow the uterus by some degree andthen plant an embryo hat lowly develops bones etc.

edit3: Are Night-creatures influenced by spherical places? Like a dusk-ogres that happens to be in a fertility sphere being more lusty and fertile?

[KillerClowns]

dwarf mode has received its first night creature blessing as well. Proper burial is now somewhat more encouraged.

Now that's just plain ominous.

[Knight Otu]

I actually thought on eggs (Df talk 10 - go listen to it guys and maids) a bit. Make them a "living" creature but unmoving creature. You start with yolk, white and shell. Reduce the the white and yolk and substitute that by outgrowing bones etc. over time. After all squishi stuff is gone detach the shell and let the Creature break free like big creatures from a cage. The detach mechanism might also be usefull for antlers etc. A egg shouldnt though turn into egg corpse if its not fertilized, cooked or whatever.

That would be a good groundwork for life cycles in general, for proper insects and all, but I feel it might be better if eggs were items. Otherwise we're kind of creating exceptions to certain rules that probably don't need to exist. For example, an egg item would be immediately cookable and eatable, no need to butcher. If we're treating eggs as vermin, then the vermin eating code might get in the way again.

On the other hand, some life cycle states like cocoons are kind of like eggs too - would that involve creatures turning into items, and then back into creatures?

[Orkel]

dwarf mode has received its first night creature blessing as well. Proper burial is now somewhat more encouraged.

Now that's just plain ominous.

Zombies? In MY dwarf fortress?

[Armok]

On the other hand, some life cycle states like cocoons are kind of like eggs too - would that involve creatures turning into items, and then back into creatures?

With separate "souls" existing and being tieable to items, it's not as bad as it sounds.