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[tfaal]

I'm really looking forward to the

Ability to perform decisive attacks on unsuspecting or heavily injured opponent (a cow being slaughtered, for instance)

While that's designed for livestock, if it's handled right it should make finishing up fights less like tenderizing meat with a sword.

[MrWiggles]

I notice that form the Dev pages, that Squad Formations weren't listed. Has that been pushed backed even further?

[G-Flex]

I think with digging invaders we should use the material system to keep things in check.

With soil and rocks having different hardness, you could require invaders to be armed with hard-enough tools to be able to actually dig through it. So, kobolds with copper tools might only be able to dig through soil, but bronze-armed goblins can take on softer stone (like sandstone). Humans with their iron picks can manage hard rock, like granite. Elves will have to stand there and and look pansy, unless they descend below the kobold level and dig away with wooden training picks Creatures will have similar abilities, based on the material hardness of their claws. Groundhogs could maybe manage soil, but you'd need a forgotten beast at least to tackle obsidian.

Constructions could either add or take away from the strength of a natural stone, I'm still undecided on that. Smoothing might also make a difference, potentially.

I dont think this makes much sense since our dwarves can dig through fun metal with copper picks

There's a bit of a catch-22 in what you're saying.

You're effectively saying "Your complete revamp of mining wouldn't work, because it contradicts the current implementation of mining"; that's kind of the point, really. There's no reason why similar rules couldn't apply to dwarves.


I personally find it a little presumptuous that humans wouldn't have at least some method of eventually tearing through, say, metallic walls, or that elves wouldn't have any methods of digging through stone at all, though. After all, there's more to mining/sapping/sieging than just picks.

[James.Denholm]

Also, this item

• Ability to offer quick deaths to mortally wounded people to get them to talk

is super hardcore.

Especially when you don't give it to them.

"Oh, did I say a quick, painless death? Sorry, I meant a slow, carving-my-name-in-your-chest-with-bits-of-your-broken-teeth-painful death. Sorry, I get the two mixed up all the time."

Also, posting to follow.

[Vattic]

Responding properly to personal fire issues

Perhaps dwarves will notice the fire now and even maybe try and put themselves out.

edit to add: there is so much good stuff on this list!

[zwei]

# Buried boulders in some soils

- Yay for soil to being more interesting. So, what about more stuff like this? Fossils, burried bones, very rare occurences like very old coin, tool, armor piece or weapon?

Fulgurites? Meteoric pieces?

Holes made by digging animals?

Some of this is easily possible with modding already but items from item raws, but not everything

# Ability to pull up surface boulders

Now, This I like! finally way to get few stones before you even strike the earth! Pick-less embark just got s bit more interesting! Weeeeee!

[DG]

Toady, I'd be very interested to hear your musings on fighting skill progression in adventure mode.

Specifically your ideas on balancing early game and end game challenge with tangible character progression and any thoughts regarding the current methods of training skills. Will any of it be involved more than coincidentally in your upcoming work?

[Jiri Petru]

Imagine when we get citys in the size of a pocketworld. Including 3d-ness from mixed cultures ala Giant trees above and dungeon below. I can see loading and unloading of people as well as structures happen as a adventurer walks through a place.

I don't picture that happening. That would be extremely massive. I am not even sure Rome was that large.

It would certainly be a huge city.

A minor friendly nitpick because this is a topic of mine interest.

Up to the 19th century, cities were tiny. Ancient Rome during its height had what... 5 kilometres in diameter? 16th century London packed perhaps 100K people into the same space, if not smaller. Both Rome and London would take only a small fraction of the smallest DF pocket world (as far as I can judge the non-defined scale). I can't imagine city the size of a pocket world.

To have sprawled cities, you need cars. Without cars, the population would be packed incredibly dense, and for a large city you'd need population in millions ("large" still being just a couple of kilometres - see 19th century London). Population in millions is unimaginable without industrial revolution because you have to feed the people somehow. All in all, I guess Dwarf Fortress has no other option that to remain reasonably small (the extreme largest city having what... tens of thousands people?). Not because it's historical, but because if you simulate things like farming and economy, there's no other way.

That was an European perspective, anyway. I have no idea how they fared in 14th century China.

[Rube]

Not because it's historical, but because if you simulate things like farming and economy, there's no other way.

That's really dependant on how accurately the game simulates farming. With the current model a single skilled farmer can produce enough crops to feed a hundred, and his produce will never spoil if placed in a barrel. From there it doesn't matter how long it takes to deliver the food. It could take a year to deliver, but the unspoiled food from the previous year will be arriving in the meanwhile.

That model will change at some point, I guess, but I imagine it'll always be using a somewhat simplified and forgiving model because the game's focus isn't farming.

[Athmos]

Dunno about the actual metric *size*, but ancient rome actually got up to about one million people. Historically, the only economy that could enable town population that large (apart from industrial revolution of course) was large tributes coming from outside and slave labor.

Any kind of above village settlement requires food from the outside anyway. Just ask yourself about realistically sized farms and, more to the point, realistically sized fields and food source. It gives a nice indication of how much space a settlement of any sized actually depends on.

[Jimmy]

Not because it's historical, but because if you simulate things like farming and economy, there's no other way.

That's really dependant on how accurately the game simulates farming. With the current model a single skilled farmer can produce enough crops to feed a hundred, and his produce will never spoil if placed in a barrel. From there it doesn't matter how long it takes to deliver the food. It could take a year to deliver, but the unspoiled food from the previous year will be arriving in the meanwhile.

That model will change at some point, I guess, but I imagine it'll always be using a somewhat simplified and forgiving model because the game's focus isn't farming.

Yeah, or there's the fact that most dwarves only eat six times a year.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Eight.

[Jiri Petru]

Right, forgot about that. Allright then, we can have continent sized cities, with all the food grown underground or inside city bocks.

Fortunately, fortress mode can have different rules than the adventure mode and world-gen.

Dunno about the actual metric *size*, but ancient rome actually got up to about one million people. Historically, the only economy that could enable town population that large (apart from industrial revolution of course) was large tributes coming from outside and slave labor.

Thanks for elaborating, I forgot about this history lesson  Then when the Roman Empire collapsed, Rome and most cities quickly depopulated, as the people were running to the countryside for food, leaving all the former great population centres eerily empty with only a handful of people remaining (most notably the nobility fled to their country villas), all the buildings unmaintained and slowly crumbling. IIRC, Rome remained heavily underpopulated up to the early modern age.

It would be awesome to see something like this in the worldgen.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

bronze-armed goblins can take on softer stone (like sandstone). Humans with their iron picks can manage hard rock, like granite.

you guys still don't get it? bronze is harder than iron.

[Jiri Petru]

you guys still don't get it? bronze is harder than iron.

Harder then elemental iron (= DF iron) maybe. But softer than "proper iron", ie. iron with impurities, work-hardened and whatnot.