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[DeKaFu]

On the subject of domestication, there's the interesting case of the experimental domestication of silver foxes.
The scientists took a bunch of silver foxes and, over 40 years or so, selectively bred them for only one trait: non-fear towards humans.

And here's the interesting bit. As they became more comfortable around humans, a bunch of other traits appeared. They got curly tails, floppy ears and new coat markings. They started wagging their tails. Sound familiar?

Video

[Nivim]

 Although certainly not as interesting as the above (at least as far as my knowledge holes are concerned), remember this post earlier in the thread that linked a fine article about the value of grain? Having a "variety of grain crops" seems to be one of the most important things listed here so far for a civilization to have.

[Mazonas]

Leaping in unannounced to throw my tuppence into the domestication discussion.

Belyaev's foxes are a fantastic view into domestication.  Belyaev began strictly breeding caged foxes according to only a single criteria - those that were the least aggressive towards humans and the most willing to interact with humans bred.  Within 60 years he's produced a breed of domesticated foxes that sell indivudall for around £4000 and are considered excellent pets, similar to both dogs and cats, and able to integrate well into most households as they will tend to copy the behaviour of other pets in the house.

What he noticed is that breeding for this one trait also produces a lot of the common traits seen in domesticated animals - shorter snouts, shorter limbs, curly tails, black and white markings including spotting and that little star on the forehead, wagging tails started to appear as did barking and licking behaviour. 

It is entirely possible that early domestication may have been a somewhat mutual act, rather than us "enslaving" animals.  Individuals from herds or packs with genetic mutations giving them less aggression or fear towards humans and more submissive tendencies may have been more likely to be drawn to the abundant food stores humans tended to stockpile.  Obviously the humans could have seen the benefit of keeping the animal around, such as with cats that would keep vermin populations down,

*EDIT* Damnit beaten to it DeKaFu

Also:  Cuteness!

http://www.sibfox.com/

[Kesc]

Fast question: Inquisition and fantasy religions wars.

[Sowelu]

As for cats, you can really wonder who tamed who.

One wonders, until one contemplates which member of the partnership is often a.) dressed up in silly costumes

What do you wear when you leave the house?  What about your cat?

[Mel_Vixen]

Well as for wolves the taming is a bit ambiguous. Even scientists arent sure if "Canis Lupus Familiaris" (common dog, Canis means dog like, lupus means wolf and Familiaris roughtly "Domesticated") deserves its name. The "Dingo" which also got an own suffix ("Canis Lupus Dingo")is also a dog. Anyway back to breeding.

Its believed, by some scientists, that the domestication of the Wolf was not a continuous process in the beggining. In the begginning it was just some wolves following humans and loosing theyr fear for us. That is because you can scavenge from humans very well. On the other Hand was the Wolf a very good tracker so that Humans followed wolfpacks to animal herds. If there was enough game for both humans tended to share so both gained because the Human was able to score more often (yes we are that altruistic). The presences of the wolf was also a advantage for the humans in security terms since they keep away/warn us on other predators.
 The "selection" for "tameness" was more coincidental. Humans praise good and punish bad behavior so a "behaving" wolf might have got more meat from a friendly human and a wolf that attacked a human became a nice jacket, if you get what i mean. So a behaving Wolf had a better chance to be fit and get higher status in the pack while the more aggressive types may have suffered injurys or death from humans so that theyr chances on passing on they traits was lowered. This means that the tamer individuals had an unfair advantage in passing on theyr genes. So the human tamed the wolf without realy trying.           

Most "wild dogs" like African wild dogs, Coyotes and Jackals btw. arent in any way related to the "common dog". They have theyr own Categories under the family of Canis. 


As for the Development of societys: Scarcity of resources is a innovation driving motor yes but its in the development of societys it takes effect in a time where a social culture is already established. Before that you have the crucial population density, available Tradepartners also play a mayor role.

A Tribe of 15 people will never be able to sufficiently advance. Skills have to be passed down so say if said tribe looses its knapper before he passed his knowledge to a suitable replacement, this knowledge is lost. A human can master only so much skills and has only so much time to learn them. So smaller civs tendet to develop slower then bigger ones since The knowledge in Bigger civs was redundant and people thanks to sharing of work and specialisation had more time to learn things.

 Outsourcing was also a big thing because your tribe could advance in a certain branch of knowledge while another could left dormant without suffering a disadvantage. If your people are proficient in making stone knives and spear/arrowheads you can export them to other tribes for other things - say hides clothes or whatever. This way you have more people that can learn and innovate the field of weapon making. You can also import foreign knowledge.
This can be seen in tasmanian tribes before the sea-level rose and cut them of from australia. They were on the average techlevel before the sea-level rose and they traded iirc. spearheads and stone-knives for clothes. Theyr population on the other hand was not dense enough to preserve the entirety of theyr knowledge and knapping so they lost the ability to make fine clothes in favor for the basic toolmaking. They also couldnt import foreign knowledge anymore.

[Quatch]

Reading lists of items in DF is difficult because the least important information is presented first: material then item. Could we get an init option to display the item then its' material?

eg: "gloves made of bear leather" rather than "bear leather gloves"

[Mel_Vixen]

Reading lists of items in DF is difficult because the least important information is presented first: material then item. Could we get an init option to display the item then its' material?

eg: "gloves made of bear leather" rather than "bear leather gloves"

Actualy a small table like structure would be nice which includes the Quality too. Switching the ordering in game would be also nice.

[Knigel]

Reading lists of items in DF is difficult because the least important information is presented first: material then item. Could we get an init option to display the item then its' material?

eg: "gloves made of bear leather" rather than "bear leather gloves"

I have to second this: the object is nearly always more important than the material, yet in a shop you often have to select an item just to find out what the hell it is because the material has such a huge name.

[Nivim]

 Wasn't there an interface changes thread for that kind of stuff? (Searching.) Yeah, a "full" one here and a "quick" one here. They seem to be languishing more than they should; if players are worried about leveling the learning cliff, the obvious answer is suggesting interface changes that are easier, faster, and/or more efficient for the person who's scaled the cliff but still a worthy challenge for those who have not.

[Neonivek]

yes we are that altruistic

Of course if you don't believe in that view, a lot of human nature is showing your supperiority through gifts and wastefulness.

Despite games depicting Gift giving as a diplomatic "Please like me" it was more of a "We are so great we can give our stuff away" in many cases.

[Mel_Vixen]

Threetoe, toady you ROC.

[Chthonic]

What do you wear when you leave the house?  What about your cat?

I appreciate the suggestion, but my cat would probably object, especially since it's gotten so cold out.

:/

[The Merchant Of Menace]

*Reads dev post* *Drools*

[KillerClowns]

Just saw the front page update.  A new megabeast, you say?  Let's roc.

(Please don't hurt me.)

Dragon and roc eggs imply dragons and rocs reproduce.  How will inherently lonely megabeasts find mates?  Will other megabeasts reproduce?  And will FBs and titans be able to inherit egg laying?