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[Grakelin]

So he's Piccolo?

[Cheddarius]

This is going to suck, because I have so many threads that show up in "Show New Replies" and this is just going to add another.
But I find this whole thing so outrageous that I'm going to post anyway.
Don't know if anyone's linked this - http://torontoist.com/2010/06/g20_videos.php - it's some video on the stuff.
The police, they messed up. They charged into peaceful protesters and all sorts of stuff.
The rioters messed up too. Surely we can agree that smashing store windows, attacking police cars and setting them on fire, etc. was way too excessive no matter how strongly you support third world countries or whatnot.
So why couldn't the police just concentrate their overwhelming force on the actual rioters? I find it... annoying, to say the least, that police beat down clearly peaceful crowds while standing around whistling while their cars were on fire. Gaaaar. I mean... I cannot believe that a policeman would make that conscious choice, to say, "Okay, I'm going to attack this crowd who aren't doing anything instead of going over to that immense column of smoke and fire over there and driving off the actual rioters."

[Sensei]

Perhaps it gets pretty hard to see with that helmet on, if you know what I mean.

[Grakelin]

This is going to suck, because I have so many threads that show up in "Show New Replies" and this is just going to add another.
But I find this whole thing so outrageous that I'm going to post anyway.
Don't know if anyone's linked this - http://torontoist.com/2010/06/g20_videos.php - it's some video on the stuff.
The police, they messed up. They charged into peaceful protesters and all sorts of stuff.
The rioters messed up too. Surely we can agree that smashing store windows, attacking police cars and setting them on fire, etc. was way too excessive no matter how strongly you support third world countries or whatnot.
So why couldn't the police just concentrate their overwhelming force on the actual rioters? I find it... annoying, to say the least, that police beat down clearly peaceful crowds while standing around whistling while their cars were on fire. Gaaaar. I mean... I cannot believe that a policeman would make that conscious choice, to say, "Okay, I'm going to attack this crowd who aren't doing anything instead of going over to that immense column of smoke and fire over there and driving off the actual rioters."

Let's go back to discussing the G20, and carry debate over capitalism to another thread.

A reporter from my University's newspaper just published an article. Here's the online version:

http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/2010/jul/2/features/trenches/

With his recollection of what happened, it really does start to sound more and more like the police force's fault.

EDIT: If you happen to browse through that site for some reason, ignore most of the comments. Some people take the old rivalry between the official newspaper and the math student newspaper far too seriously (including people who are on the staff of both, sadly), and like to get militant about it.

Man, people don't read posted links.

[Cheddarius]

Yup.

[ed boy]

The police, they messed up. They charged into peaceful protesters and all sorts of stuff.

I can tell you, even with all the training that the police have had, it's bloody hard to avoid this. A policeman can't just, with a glance, judge all the current ant future intentions of a person and act appropriately.

Besides, when you're in that sort of situation, it's almost impossible to think properly. I've been in similar situations myself (although on a much lesser scale), and I could barely differentiate between those you are supposed to protect and those you are supposed to target.

[fenrif]

The police, they messed up. They charged into peaceful protesters and all sorts of stuff.

I can tell you, even with all the training that the police have had, it's bloody hard to avoid this. A policeman can't just, with a glance, judge all the current ant future intentions of a person and act appropriately.

Besides, when you're in that sort of situation, it's almost impossible to think properly. I've been in similar situations myself (although on a much lesser scale), and I could barely differentiate between those you are supposed to protect and those you are supposed to target.

But that is their job. They're supposed to be trained to handle those kinds of situations. They're damn well supposed to be held to a higher standard than any random joe off the street.

They don't need to be able to look at someone and psychically know what they might do in the future, they just need to arrest people who they see doing something illegal. You can't get arrested for future crimes. If they can't tell if you're doing something wrong or not, then the solution definatly isn't "charge in and make the situation worse."

And people wonder why there's no faith in tbe police anymore. If they can't tell the difference between peacefull protesters and rioters, so just charge into anyone willy nilly, then they are doing their job wrong.

[ChairmanPoo]

Man, people don't read posted links.

TBH it's not very realistic to expect people to read boring tracts relevant only to online discussions of dubious significance. 

[ed boy]

But that is their job. They're supposed to be trained to handle those kinds of situations. They're damn well supposed to be held to a higher standard than any random joe off the street.

They can indeed do it a damn sight better than any random joe off the street. The reason why they mess up so little is proof of this. You only hear about when they mess up, not when they succeed. But the job is so hard that even with their training the mess up from time to time.

[optimumtact]

<snip>

To be fair if you put yourself in the shoes of the policemen on the scene, imagine that you are one of those in the blue line. Crowds can be very intimidating even if they are peaceful. Now imagine that there have been small scale riots at other areas, combine this with the knowledge of riots at the other G20's and you would be pretty jumpy. Policemen are human too and they have loved ones that they want to see at the end of the day.

[Nikov]

If police do their job well, you complain over minor, trivial little things. Its when they go too hard or too soft that you get massacres or looting. So I'm quite happy we're all griping over small stuff, like needless arrests or guys getting too happy with the nonlethal tools.

[Grakelin]

Man, people don't read posted links.

TBH it's not very realistic to expect people to read boring tracts relevant only to online discussions of dubious significance.

TBH, I should have figured it was too unrealistic to expect people to read a news article about the topic they're vehemently debating.

The Police: I guess you guys have STILL not read the article, so shut the fuck up and go read either the source I gave you or a source from any number of other places before you continue this line of discussion.

I assume none of you have read the article, because it explicitly states that the mounted police (they actually ride horses) swarmed into the free speech zone. I guess none of you have seen the video where the crowd of people are singing 'Oh Canada' when the RCMP perform a cavalry charge on them, either.

It is getting increasingly annoying to watch people on this forum blather on about things without ever looking at any source material. I came into this thread and said that there were allegations of police misconduct, starting up a debate on just this. Then I posted an article about it, and it was completely ignored by the people debating. If I had instead come in here and said that there were allegations of Drew Carey being part of the riots, this thread would be about what effect this would have on the Price is Right.

It's great that you're all into critical thinking, but try to actually look up some information before using personal experiences and preconceptions to make your decision. That's part of thinking critically, and there's no excuse for not doing so when sources are provided for you.

[fenrif]

TBH, I should have figured it was too unrealistic to expect people to read a news article about the topic they're vehemently debating.

But if people read the links, they might find out they're wrong! What kind of heartless person are you to try and prove people wrong with evidence. MONSTER!

Also, they charged in on their horses to peacefull protests beacuse they were terrified! I mean, they're only human! Here they are, riding around minding their own buisness in top of the range riot gear, with years of training... and some hippy starts singing songs. Who knows what might happen if they're allowed to continue?! These people have families y'know.

[Cheddarius]

I can tell you, even with all the training that the police have had, it's bloody hard to avoid this. A policeman can't just, with a glance, judge all the current ant future intentions of a person and act appropriately.

Here's a hint. See something on fire? Go to it, young policeman. Go to it.
Same applies for people breaking store windows, etc.

[Realmfighter]

What if there is a large mob of unruly people between you and the fire?