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Author Topic: They told me I could be anything...  (Read 78908 times)

dragnar

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1215 on: September 12, 2010, 10:27:15 am »

Yes, it's horrible the way you can't break the game with tons of meta-suggestions. ::)

Besides, even if Ego were a blank slate, no programming at all, you couldn't randomly assign a goal of "Optimize world for beauty". A blank slate has no definition of beauty to begin with, and no reason to create more. In fact, a robot with no goal whatsoever, no matter how sophisticated the AI, will do NOTHING, because it has no reason to do anything.
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Armok

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1216 on: September 12, 2010, 11:48:06 am »

That depends on the specifics of the implementation. After all, it has no reason to "do nothing" either. It might end up doing nothing, or it might end up doing random things until it breaks itself, or it might have some lingering subgoal that originally was just a means to an end but with nothing else around makes itself it's own end.
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So says Armok, God of blood.
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cerapa

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1217 on: September 12, 2010, 11:54:16 am »

I guess you people are not familiar to AI and decision theory?
Perhaps you should ask yourself this?

If an AI has no goals, it will do nothing. It wont do random stuff.
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Armok

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1218 on: September 12, 2010, 12:10:07 pm »

NO; It probably will do that in most practical cases, but what an AI does when all actions are equal is implementation specific. One that lost it's goals due to this kind of meddling might well end up implementing a random goal.
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So says Armok, God of blood.
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cerapa

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1219 on: September 12, 2010, 12:27:05 pm »

It will have no random goals to actually use. The AI in this case does nothing.
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dragnar

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1220 on: September 12, 2010, 12:30:31 pm »

NO; It probably will do that in most practical cases, but what an AI does when all actions are equal is implementation specific. One that lost it's goals due to this kind of meddling might well end up implementing a random goal.
No... An AI with no goals, has no goals. It won't spontaneously decide on a random one. It's the equivalent of leaving windows running and never giving it any commands. It will just sit there, continuing to run, not just starting up random programs. It's THERE, but that's about it.
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Armok

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1221 on: September 12, 2010, 12:37:35 pm »

Goals are not physical objects, it can just be generated from scratch by noise. And "do nothing" has no instrinct defaultness that will make things without other goals do that, it's a subgoal of saving energy. It's pretty likely there has never in reality existed an entity that could be said to have goals and haven't to some extent cared about saving energy, which is why you assume everything will, but it's far from a mathematical rule.

Windows isn't really an entity with goals, but if you treat it as one anyway saving processing power is probably among them, right below earning money for microsoft, looking pretty, and following user instructions.
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So says Armok, God of blood.
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Sszsszssaaayysss...
III...

dragnar

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1222 on: September 12, 2010, 12:53:18 pm »

Goals are not physical objects, it can just be generated from scratch by noise.
In an AI? Not really. The main goal of a lot of engineering is to remove noise as much as possible, to ensure the program does what it is told.

Still, I'll admit the guardians might be an exception, due to the human brains they are based around using noise in their operation instead of removing it.

Hmm... this discussion of AIs reminds me of an idea I had for a video game once... maybe I should make a forum game version...
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cerapa

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1223 on: September 12, 2010, 01:58:21 pm »

Goals are not physical objects, it can just be generated from scratch by noise.
Directive: SDARFGfdgeRE
AI goes "What?!" and stops doing stuff cause it cant understand what its supposed to do. Or in the case of no error detection, starts spazzing out.

Quote
And "do nothing" has no instrinct defaultness that will make things without other goals do that, it's a subgoal of saving energy.
Do nothing isnt an action or a goal. Its a state. And a default state at that.

Perhaps we should move this to PMs or another thread? This is rather off-topic.
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Silleh Boy

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1224 on: September 12, 2010, 02:08:08 pm »

You had to wonder how you would actually be able to locate one of their less publically declared research areas, one of the places that they no doubt researched things that they wished for nobody else to know about. Things that would shock the regular citizen, things that were too dangerous or too unpredictable to announce as projects for the people to follow. There was always the Technomancers for that, always the guild filled with lunatics that liked flashy pyrotechnics and large explosions. The Clockworkers had the respectable image, yet when it came to it, they were the ones who commited atrocities in the name of science as the Guardian series had proven.

It was a wonder that they had kept the true nature of those things covered up for so long, that people were unaware of how they had condemned former friends to become those things. That the Enlightened, guilty of nothing more than falling foul of the Clockworkers as a scapegoat, were the only things they had found reliably able to survive the entire process.

The one thing that you could count on was that these research facilities that they had would be guarded by their mascot Guardians, that you would be able to catch them unaware by being able to waltz past their so called protectors. Then, you could deal with them as you pleased, then, you could sort through their research and see what of it would benefit you.

Weapons, new armour materials, new components not installed in the Guardians, anything of that nature would be extremely welcome at this moment. Anything that would further the power of your form, anything that would make certain that you were able to deal with the people that came after you with ease. They would no doubt after all, come after you with weapons of their own once they were certain that the Guardians were of no use, they would no doubt attempt to destroy you.

They were welcome to try.

Another of the Guardians walked by, travelling down the street as you started on your way, one that you instinctively knew to be Unit Six-Two-Two. One that you knew before he had fallen foul of the Clockworkers had been Brother Angst, a man who had been a fairly reasonable one at that, one who like many, bore a name that bore no relevance to his personality. Sister Anxiety however, was one of the few who had been renamed, who had lost the name originally bestowed upon them. She had once been Love, she had once been someone who bore a name of beauty and warmth. She was one who had been stripped of the name because she faltered.

At least that was how you recalled it.

You disliked her, yet this dislike felt as if it was bordering on obsession, as you knew that her weakness was to blame for the fall of the Enlightened, that she should have remained silent. She should have never told others about the place that you had hidden in, she should have respected all that she was given, been thankful and-

How did you know that one was Six-Two-Two?

You had to wonder, maybe, just maybe...

Maybe there was some form of interconnection between your mind and theirs, maybe that was what permitted them to recognise you immediately as one of them, despite how they were of a completely different design to you. Maybe there was some form of mind used as a means of remote control, something that would permit you to locate one of these guild research areas. It made sense that they would have created some form of overseer that they could control the others with, used one of the more powerful minds, a mind like... Like...

A Transcendent.

A Transcendent mind amongst the Enlightened was able to co-exist in both the world of the living and the world of the unconscious mind. You were one of the more powerful minds, you were one who was no doubt next going to be gifted with the boost that would push you that way. You were going to get Pride's help in reaching a state in what your latent potential was harnessed. The only problem here though, was that you had never actually used what you knew of this power before for anything more than walking dreams. You had never actually had to use it while focusing on the world before you at the same time. You were far from powerful enough to be one of the fully fledged Transcendent, yet it may just be enough.

Your visual sensor shut off as you freed yourself of the distracting input that it presented, your body standing still as you focused, as you mentally sought to alert whatever may pass as an overseer to your presence, to see if you were able to glean the location of the nearest facility from it.

"This is-" you started, only for a booming voice to echo in your mind.

"Ego."

Your thoughts froze at the chilling power of the voice that you had heard, a voice that was no less impassive than the Guardians voices, yet it was overwhelming in magnitude.

"Ego, Designation NULL. Status, Incomplete. Transcendent Mind Detected. Report To Nearest Facility For Conversion Into Overseer Unit," that booming voice continued, before your visual sensor crackled back to life, disrupting what little focus you had on remaining in that state of mind. As you were jolted back to full awareness of the world about you, pulled away from the amateur attempt you had made to mentally walk between the two.

Something had come of it however, you could feel information tickling at the back of your mind, a map of the area you were in forming in your thoughts. You could see a route to a seemingly normal building in one of the abandoned industrial parts of the City. The location of a place that had not been declared, a place that doubled up as a research facility and secondary production area.

Had you a mouth, right now you would have been grinning.

This was just what you were looking for.

The fact that you had been right did not please you however, as you couldn't know if it was from your own brilliant mind having worked out that this was the most likely thing, or if this was implanted knowledge. You didn't know if this had all come to you, if you had instinctual awareness of how to interact with the hierarchy of the Guardians from the failed attempt to create a weapon of war.

As you made your way swiftly towards the facility, you found yourself once more considering your potential options. How did you plan to deal with those in the facility, how did you plan to deal with the facility itself, what were your plans now?

cerapa

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1225 on: September 12, 2010, 02:21:16 pm »

This might have messed up our ability to ask the other guardians for help.
Couldnt hurt much to try though. In case it doesnt work, we should bring a weapon to hit them in the weak spot, for massive (brain)damage.

The facility should be cleared of everyone inside. the scientists shouldnt put up too much resistance.
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RAM

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1226 on: September 12, 2010, 06:32:33 pm »

Ego doesn't strike me as the type to leave witnesses...
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Jabberwock

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1227 on: September 12, 2010, 11:45:49 pm »

We should enter the facility sneakily. No sense in alerting the Clockworkers that one of their reseach bases has been attacked. What we should get is information of what things they are making, other bases they have that we may not know of, what happened to Pride, and other monsters of the night.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1228 on: September 13, 2010, 11:10:12 am »

destroy that facility it is the root of all the evil that happened to you

In all seriousness, the bolded text above is what I could write for twenty sentences or more.
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Nivim

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Re: They told me I could be anything...
« Reply #1229 on: September 13, 2010, 08:34:42 pm »

 Take over the facility by acting as a command unit rather that overseer unit. Trap the scientists and get them to make you better eyes if they haven't already. This is no longer the clockworker's laboratory, it is your base.
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