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[kendo]

or build a crane of floors/supports above

[WrathNail]

Yeah but I want it to be repeatable with as little extra work as possible, so a crane/support at the top would likely get in the way of dumping water in from above.

[meto30]

Why haddn't I seen this ingenious invention BEFORE I constructed 600 pumps for the obsidian monolith? *facepalm*

I believe this is one of the greatest dwarven inventions in creation, on par with the perpetual engine and the demon webber-trapper.

[kendo]

Yeah but I want it to be repeatable with as little extra work as possible, so a crane/support at the top would likely get in the way of dumping water in from above.

Yeah, but I found that building the dumpers above the support layer - didnt cause any problems, the square that the support blocks from above is always covered by the splash usually. I found when I was building a 3 z cistern of magma that rebuilding the support system at the bottom was far more work. Though I could of been doing it in a inefficient way.

[meto30]

wouldn't a single tile of floor on the same level as the top of the casted obsidian double as a support?
I don't know how to type those dwarffortress ascii tiles, so I'll settle with something that looks similar -

Code: [Select]

▒~~~water~~~▒
▒---bridge--▒
▒.........._▒  <<a single tile floor, connected to an access corridoor
▒.■■■■■■■■■.▒
▒.■■■■■■■■■.▒
▒.■piston■■.▒
▒.■■■■■■■■■.▒
▒.■■■■■■■■■.▒

then the floor only needs to be deconstructed for the piston to fall. Yes, takes longer time than pulling a lever, but this way the falling water faces no obstructions.

[kendo]

if its on the same level as the top of the piston it works yeah, but then you need someone to deconstruct the floor and they could be killed by the cave in when the piston falls

[Urist Imiknorris]

Noble? Do they remove constructions?

[kendo]

Or assign a child to a burrow next to the floor - they have their uses 

[Falc]

Question: how big does the cistern need to be compared to the piston? If it is the exact same size, will that stop the piston on the z-level above the magma, due to the awesome supporting power of edges?

In other words, do I go from this:

Code: [Select]

▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒.........▒▒
▒▒▒7777777▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
to this:

Code: [Select]

▒▒.........▒▒
▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒▒7777777▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
or to this:

Code: [Select]

▒▒.........▒▒
▒▒.7777777.▒▒
▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒▒■■■■■■■▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Code: [Select]

▒▒.........▒▒
▒▒.7777777.▒▒
▒▒.■■■■■■■.▒▒
▒▒▒■■■■■■■▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒


Followed shortly by

Code: [Select]

▒▒.........▒▒
▒▒444434444▒▒
▒▒7■■■■■■■7▒▒
▒▒▒■■■■■■■▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒


[WrathNail]

Yeah, but I found that building the dumpers above the support layer - didnt cause any problems, the square that the support blocks from above is always covered by the splash usually. I found when I was building a 3 z cistern of magma that rebuilding the support system at the bottom was far more work. Though I could of been doing it in a inefficient way.

Actually, after some trial and error (fun included), I found an easy and efficient way to build the support in the cistern, involving only a single support.

The logic is the same as the one behind digging out the piston: Simply dig out (not channel) all layers of the cistern, placing a support inside the top layer before it's completely dug out (I use raised bridges like the OP to block out magma without supporting the piston). Of course you have to remove the floors in some places to allow the magma to seep through to the lower levels. Then when you collapse the support, the piston will crash through all the floors in the cistern, transporting the magma on each layer to the top as usual.

If you use (magma-safe) doors to seal off access to the cistern layers, this doubles as a fast and efficient way to dig out the cistern when you want to repeat the process by allowing your miners to reach all the layers directly.

[ioi101]

I'm a DF newb but this seems like a very interesting (and useful) project. I think I understand most of it but I'm not clear on how the obsidian caster should work with more then 1 z level. Specifically would a setup like this, for a 3z level piston work:

(Side view perspective)

RAAAAR
EEEEEUU
BPPPPB
BPPPPBUU   -> leading to cistern for magma
BPPPPB
EPPPPE
EPPPPE

P- piston
E- empty space
B- retractable bridges that are on the bottom of the level shown
UU- Locations of pumps
R - rock on the sides of the water... I don't want to dump water on top of the lava that's at the retractable bridges
A- water on top of a retractable bridge (not shown)


So the idea is, I have 3 sets of retractable bridges, I extend the bottom one only when I first collapse the piston. This leads to multiple levels of lava in the holder which get vacuumed out (down to 2/7 level) by the bottom pump which pumps it into another cistern (maybe I should use a 2 pump stack here actually). Then I dump water on the top which gives me the new bottom layer of my piston and some left over magma on top of the bridges. Then I extend the second set of bridges and pump 2/7 levels of magma from the top pump on top of them and the obsidian that formed the bottom layer and cast water again. Then I extend the third set of bridges, pump and cast again.

Then I can open the 2 top bridges leading and collect the last bit of lava from the bottom layer with my pump and be ready to start again.

Other then some details about how to get lava from my cistern to the top pump (probably with an extra pump or two somewhere), would this work, or is there a better way to do this?

[WrathNail]

I'm a DF newb but this seems like a very interesting (and useful) project. I think I understand most of it but I'm not clear on how the obsidian caster should work with more then 1 z level. Specifically would a setup like this, for a 3z level piston work:

(Side view perspective)

RAAAAR
EEEEEUU
BPPPPB
BPPPPBUU   -> leading to cistern for magma
BPPPPB
EPPPPE
EPPPPE

P- piston
E- empty space
B- retractable bridges that are on the bottom of the level shown
UU- Locations of pumps
R - rock on the sides of the water... I don't want to dump water on top of the lava that's at the retractable bridges
A- water on top of a retractable bridge (not shown)


So the idea is, I have 3 sets of retractable bridges, I extend the bottom one only when I first collapse the piston. This leads to multiple levels of lava in the holder which get vacuumed out (down to 2/7 level) by the bottom pump which pumps it into another cistern (maybe I should use a 2 pump stack here actually). Then I dump water on the top which gives me the new bottom layer of my piston and some left over magma on top of the bridges. Then I extend the second set of bridges and pump 2/7 levels of magma from the top pump on top of them and the obsidian that formed the bottom layer and cast water again. Then I extend the third set of bridges, pump and cast again.

Then I can open the 2 top bridges leading and collect the last bit of lava from the bottom layer with my pump and be ready to start again.

Other then some details about how to get lava from my cistern to the top pump (probably with an extra pump or two somewhere), would this work, or is there a better way to do this?

It can be done much easier. Mine is like this (shortened to 3-level cistern. My actual one has 5)

Code: [Select]

WWAAAWW
WOOOOOXUU
WOPPPOWUU
WOPPPOWUU
WBPPPBOOW
WOPPPOWWW
WOPPPOW
W = Wall
O = Open space
P = Piston
U = Pumps, a stack of 3 that pump magma up 3 levels into a reservoir.
X = Floodgate, seals off the reservoir.
B = Bridge (on the floor. Not even linked, since it's always extended)
A = Water on a retractable bridge

The procedure is like this:

1. Collapse piston
2. Pump out all magma to reservoir until only 2/7 remains. Stop the pump.
3. Dump water. Level one of piston is casted. Refill water of the dumper.
4. Open floodgate. Let magma flow out until there is 2/7 on the casted piston. Close gate.
5. Dump water. Level two casted. Refill water of the dumper.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 to cast the final level.
7. Pump out all the residual magma. Everything should now be reset to the original state.
8. Repeat process as needed.

As said I use a 5-level cistern and 8x8 piston, which brings up 320 tiles of 7/7 magma in one go. Losing roughly 30% in the casting process, net yield is about 225-230 tiles. That's a 15x15 area of red goodness.

[ioi101]

Ah, you're right of course there's no need to have more levels of bridges the lava just fills out the spaces on the edge completely.

Thanks!

[jei]

EDIT: Now with repeatability!

• Make sure the whole thing is subteranean if your map freezes. My map was frozen half the year and it was a massive pain in the ass, as the obsidian caster will ice up.
• Don't try and cast with a 2/7 layer on top of a 7/7. The water doesnt all fall together, and as the obsidian sinks it throws magma everywhere and the obsidian will not form a flat surface, ruining your piston

Anyway thats my contribution to dwarven science. Hopefully it will be used to bring magma to dwarves in need everywhere.

Very nice work, but couldn't ice be used just as well? Maybe use floodgates to form and drop an entire ice column down... 
This might be an interesting science project.