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[Solace]

Are the undead officially fixed? I can kill them pretty easy with a hammer in adventurer mode, but haven't heard any threads about "OMG unkillable creatures bug fixed" so...

[Hyndis]

Are the undead officially fixed? I can kill them pretty easy with a hammer in adventurer mode, but haven't heard any threads about "OMG unkillable creatures bug fixed" so...

#  06/30/2010: I've added in some more cumulative damage effects and fixed problems that had arisen with the swing velocity and impact calculations. The bronze colossus can die, unarmed striking fights end eventually now, and I had 13 dwarves with maces beat 13 dwarves with swords (with 2 and 3 dwarves remaining in two tests), so many of the issues seem to be resolved. Several bugs related to ranged weapons should be up within a few days, but I'll probably want to check a few more things here.
# 06/28/2010: The material-based random critters should be killable now. We're also putting together the new dev notes, and hopefully those will be up on the 1st. I'll probably continue with combat bugs tomorrow.



You should also be able to kill undead with cumulative damage, just like you'll be able to kill a BC or FB made out of coral.

[Rkui]

Anyway, I phrased my question that way because sieges are not the main concern with rapid switching of equipment - unexpected cavern wildlife intrusions and ambushes give you far less time to react so I expect soldiers should carry live weapons by default and only use practice weapons at the exact time they need them: sparring only.

Somehow i agree, but then i like to train my futur soldiers on uncaged goblins, and i usually first let them wrestle on them, then i give them wooden weapons, then when they have real skill i stop the training with caged goblin, i give them a real weapon and send them into siege. You can easely control the strengh of the oponent with goblins, first you can take off the equipement you only want, and then they also have skill, some are recruit, other are master, so its a very effective way to train your soldiers without much risk, lot better than sparring.
Somehow you should be able to say which is the primary/secondary/sparring weapon like it was, kind of, in 40 (you could choose how many weapon you'll equip), and you should be able to switch those. If you put a switch like "training weapon = sparring only" it will screw this all.

[Psieye]

Ok point, naked goblin training is indeed a valid use for wooden training weapons. Not sure if that's intended behaviour or not, so let's wait on Toady's response.


Undead were 'fixed' looooooooooooong ago back in .03 with an HP system just for them. DF combat is realistic enough that it demonstrates how undead just don't make sense in nature. Undead die if you beat them up enough, no matter what the individual tissue wounds say. Unkillable creatures refer to inorganic forgotten beasts.

[Narmio]

Anyway, I phrased my question that way because sieges are not the main concern with rapid switching of equipment - unexpected cavern wildlife intrusions and ambushes give you far less time to react so I expect soldiers should carry live weapons by default and only use practice weapons at the exact time they need them: sparring only.

Somehow i agree, but then i like to train my futur soldiers on uncaged goblins, and i usually first let them wrestle on them, then i give them wooden weapons, then when they have real skill i stop the training with caged goblin, i give them a real weapon and send them into siege. You can easely control the strengh of the oponent with goblins, first you can take off the equipement you only want, and then they also have skill, some are recruit, other are master, so its a very effective way to train your soldiers without much risk, lot better than sparring.
Somehow you should be able to say which is the primary/secondary/sparring weapon like it was, kind of, in 40 (you could choose how many weapon you'll equip), and you should be able to switch those. If you put a switch like "training weapon = sparring only" it will screw this all.

You could solve both the need to switch to training weapons and the desire for dwarves to occasionally engage in real combat using training weapons.  Something like being able to assign any weapon to a dwarf as a "Weapon", and any other weapon as a "Sparring Weapon".  The former is kept on the dwarf, the latter is kept on a weapon rack in an assigned barracks.  That way you can use training weapons as real weapons if you want to, and you can also use real weapons as training weapons (say you have no wood and want to use silver swords for sparring).   It adds yet more complication and clutter to the military assignment screen, but it would provide all the weapon assignment functionality anyone could ever want!

[steveman0]

There were issues at small sizes that might help with darts and which have definitely been handled for bolts.  Contact area always influenced the chance of penetration, but there was a division at one point that made small contact areas round up, so any small numbers were just getting washed out.  I'd still need to test darts.

In case I wasn't clear (I don't know how well I explained it), what I mean about darts/arrows can be summed up via analogy to bullets: Obviously, bullets are pretty tiny so you can't stab someone very deeply with one even if you could get a grip on it, but when you fire them with a gun they can go clear through a person; what I'm unsure of is if the game has any notion of this (of the entire body of a piece of ammunition piercing through to the next layer, such that it can go deeper than the ammunition itself is long).

Ah, no, I see you mentioned that now as a separate issue from the darts, and yeah, we haven't done anything with it.  Between darts, bolts and arrows against their regular targets, it isn't nearly as important, but there are some cases (like shooting a dragon with an adamantine bolt) where it would need to be addressed to get the ideal behavior.  When I do the sweep area vs contact area thing for swings, it'll probably involve very similar changes, so I'll try to keep it in mind.

In other words, with these conditions an unkillable dwarf is possible if you are able to wrap him up in some sort of leather zorb http://www.google.com/images?q=zorb&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi


Either way... YAY Marksdwarfs!!! I am totally ready to set down on goblin turf and start swiss-cheesing them gobs.

[forsaken1111]

Either way... YAY Marksdwarfs!!! I am totally ready to set down on goblin turf and start swiss-cheesing them gobs.

Hm... goblin cheese.

-is off to mod goblins as milkable-

[FuzzyDoom]

Either way... YAY Marksdwarfs!!! I am totally ready to set down on goblin turf and start swiss-cheesing them gobs.

Hm... goblin cheese.

-is off to mod goblins as milkable-

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth...

[RAM]

You could solve both the need to switch to training weapons and the desire for dwarves to occasionally engage in real combat using training weapons.  Something like being able to assign any weapon to a dwarf as a "Weapon", and any other weapon as a "Sparring Weapon".  The former is kept on the dwarf, the latter is kept on a weapon rack in an assigned barracks.

And because it is kept in the training room, multiple dwarves could use the same training weapon, although they might become sad and go on a killing spree because someone else was using their weapon when they wanted it...

[izraqthedark]

I don't know if that would be the case since it is a sparring weapon.  When I was in martial arts, when someone didn't have equipment or a weapon to run kata etc... we really didn't care since it wasn't "ours".  How this pertains to DF is that the weapon wouldn't be really "theirs" but yet the (not to be crude but its the best way I could think of explaing it) fortress bicycle... everyone's used it so what is the big deal.  I see where you are coming from since it is their weapon but yet at the same time its a sparring weapon so why should it get the same priority as their say masterwork iron battle axe.

[RAM]

Yes, but they want to spar, but someone stole the weapon they were going to use, and they are a dwarf with a proud history of tantruming ancestors...
Of course, you could just set a category of weapon and they take any weapons assigned to the location that they are sparring in or the squad they are training with, but then you miss out on the chance to tantrum...

[Psieye]

Oh come on, when guilds and religious cults go in, there'll be so many more interesting chances of tantrum and emotion string pulling. No point introducing some silly artificial reason to tantrum in a way annoying to prevent. Now if they tantrumed because you ran out of sparring weapons and everyone else got to spar while they had to sit at the wall, that I could accept.

[Baughn]

Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.png

It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.

[eerr]

Marksdwarves have always worked in the arena. It's fortress mode where we grieve and Toady won't release .09 until he's fixed it or made enough changes to warrant extensive playtesting by us. Training and equipping do work even in .08 provided you stick to certain restrictions.

I've had the save-crash bug at least 6 times already, and two crashes that cost me a total of a year, at least.

I think, maybe, .09 can come early.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.png

It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.

I see new stuff and I see matrixy stuff. Not sure whether to take you seriously or not..