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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released  (Read 133281 times)

Psieye

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #360 on: June 29, 2010, 09:19:24 pm »

I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible)

Likewise... once we can use Marksdwarves again, what will happen to Marksdwarves who run out of ammo mid-fight?  Ideally I'd like them to pick up the nearest bolts they can find, which, if I had my way, would be in a stockpile right there beside their assigned place on the fortified tower/parapets.  I'm worried that they'd either sit there until the Arsenal Dwarf wakes up and finishes drinking, or they'd charge the enemy with their crossbow and start bashing.  And even if the A.D. is awake and active, he might assign them a pile of bolts that's halfway across the map, instead of the ones right next to them.
Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.
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Military Training EXP Analysis
Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Medicine Man

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #361 on: June 30, 2010, 02:51:27 am »


[/quote]

Dwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.


[/quote]

Can I please sig that?
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greycat

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #362 on: June 30, 2010, 07:19:01 am »

Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.

OK, fair enough.  Then the question becomes, how do I manage to get the right bolts into the right ammo stockpiles....
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Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

steveman0

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #363 on: June 30, 2010, 08:09:07 am »

Quote
Dwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.
Can I please sig that?

Feel free.   :P
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Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #364 on: June 30, 2010, 08:37:38 am »

Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.

OK, fair enough.  Then the question becomes, how do I manage to get the right bolts into the right ammo stockpiles....

Don't even bother with marksdwarves, they and their training is broken and they prefer bashing enemies with their crossbow instead of shooting the bolts in their quiver.
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Meanmelter

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #365 on: June 30, 2010, 08:40:33 am »

Quote
Dwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.

Dwarf Fortress: Now with 25% more Face palming.

We should fill this up to 200%
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Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #366 on: June 30, 2010, 10:06:42 am »

Toady, now that you're doing combat bugs, you should make armor penetration a bit more random as at the moment weaker materials never penetrate stronger ones and it makes up for really predictable combat which isn't that fun.
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Quote from: madjoe5
Dwarf Fortress: The game in which people place abducted children in a furnace to see what happens.

smjjames

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #367 on: June 30, 2010, 10:29:11 am »

In case anyone's wondering, I don't think that this:

Weapon degradation will definitely change all of this colossus fighting, at least with non-adamantine weapons.

was meant to imply that weapon/armor degradation is actually being implemented yet.

I hope not since all of the issues with squads, the arsenal dwarf, training, ranged, and military in general will have to be fixed first, and even then, adding in weapon (and maybe armor) degredation will add almost as many issues
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EsnRedshirt

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #368 on: June 30, 2010, 12:49:39 pm »

Posted this in the discussion forum, but I think I found a workaround to Marksdwarves not firing crossbows. I had equipped all my fortress guard with crossbows, since I figure it's better to be beaten with a stick than an axe for ignoring impossible demands... then a crundle crawled up into the main stairwell.

I sent the fortress guard after it by stationing them near the spot it was at. To my amazement, one of the dwarves actually fired his crossbow at it and killed it. When I cancelled the station order, I noticed his "civilian" profession was "hunter". It may be possible that marksdwarves need to have the hunting labor active in order to actually fire their crossbows. I'll do a bit more testing at lunch time to see if I can get any more of my fortress guard to shoot things- there's a whole herd of crundle out there that needs to be thinned out.
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MaDeR Levap

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #369 on: June 30, 2010, 01:01:01 pm »

Wow, military bugs hunt! This make me happy. :) Can't wait for 31.09.
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Dewar

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #370 on: June 30, 2010, 01:14:22 pm »

Hmm, my stone stockpiles don't appear to be working.

I have two metal ore only stockpiles right by my smelters. Both have allow non-plant/animal on. They are the only stone stockpiles I have as I have disabled all the others to try and get it to work. I am currently in a siege, so my civilians are relegated to the "Inside" burrow, which includes everything inside my fortress including both the mining area and the stockpiles.

No one is loading the stockpiles despite me having 40 idlers. The smelter dwarves have to run downstairs to the mine every time I want them to make some iron bars. Bug? Am I misunderstanding Burrows?
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Footkerchief

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #371 on: June 30, 2010, 01:18:05 pm »

I have two metal ore only stockpiles right by my smelters. Both have allow non-plant/animal on. They are the only stone stockpiles I have as I have disabled all the others to try and get it to work. I am currently in a siege, so my civilians are relegated to the "Inside" burrow, which includes everything inside my fortress including both the mining area and the stockpiles.

No one is loading the stockpiles despite me having 40 idlers. The smelter dwarves have to run downstairs to the mine every time I want them to make some iron bars. Bug? Am I misunderstanding Burrows?

Do you have stone hauling turned on in (o)rders?  Do the civilians have the stone hauling labor enabled?
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greycat

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #372 on: June 30, 2010, 03:00:54 pm »

Does the burrow include every tile on a path leading from the stockpile to the mine?
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MrWiggles

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #373 on: June 30, 2010, 05:38:58 pm »

If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3


Equipment Maintenance, such as sharpening, cleaning, and minor armor mending should be task for the soldier to do on their down time. Weapon and Armor smith should only come in for major repair works. Like replacing large holes in chain mail, or reforging a sundered sword.

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible) Will they try to run to an armory to get a new weapon? If yes, how will that work with all the arsenal dwarf bureaucracy when they can't just pick up a weapon on a whim?

An interesting solution would be to have each dwarf carry two weapons by default (determined by default uniforms... say one weapon for the "light" leather uniform, two weapons for the "heavy" metal uniform). Better yet, have backup weapons dependent on the main weapon. Macedwarfs probably don't need backups. Swordsdwarves and speardwarves, on the other hand, should carry a backup warhammer or something that doesn't break.

EDIT: This leads to the issue of being able to tell your dwarves to use certain weapons for this fight only. "It's a colossus, throw away your spears, pick up hammers"... without needing to wait for the arsenal dwarf and preferably without much micromanagement.   Because without being able to specify weapons now, the realistic material system along with weapon damage would make fighting mineral beats too broken.

Dorfs should have a sense of internal judgment and urgency in this regard. They should be able to pick up the nearest weapon with the next highest skill unless its out of a circumference range (Relative to the dorf speed. The dorf should not want to abandon the battle field for long lengths of time.) with some personality bits thrown in. Like a stubborn dwarf is gonna kill ya with a sword even if you keep breaking them all. It should be able to use fallen enemies weapons.

Ultimately it'd be nice if they would make contextual judgments. Like if there are Civvies in X range, and there are no other Military Dorfs in X range to protect the civvies, and if the dorf weapon break it should decided with respect to personality, to stay their and wrestle whatever it is to protect the civvies. And there should be leeway for judgment errors.

Like for example: Dorf A is Fighting Goblin B, with Civve C&D near by. Dorf A weapon break, but there are Dorf D & E near by. Dorf A alerts Dorf D & E to fight Goblin B, as it judge the goblin ability to reach to the civies or keep up with him to be worse then the ability for for Dorf D & E to engage Goblin B.

Dorf A may know that D & E are markdwarfs but may not know they are out of ammo, and takes into account their range capability anyway to decide if Dorf A can break away safely.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.31.08 Released
« Reply #374 on: June 30, 2010, 06:01:12 pm »

Toady did you mean only degeneration of the edges or actual damage to weapons? Ala bended/shattererd blades, brocken staffs and splintered arrows?

Also a damaged weapon must not be useless, you can trash a cue over the had of someone and then stab the same person with a now (most likely) sharp end. The "Cut of saurons finger"-move comes also to mind or using a broken jo / bo like an eskrima Staff.   
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