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[Footkerchief]

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.

[jfs]

That's the thing, the only really bad thing about unkillable creatures, is that your dwarves continue to be afraid of them. They just need to be recognized as harmless really. At that point you can just integrate them into the fort and put them into a corner somewhere.

I know I'm going dangerously into "suggestion" territory now, but another thing that strikes me as odd/annoying is how civilians in general can't determine whether they're really in danger.
There's the case cephalo describes above with a creature rendered harmless, but there's also the case of creatures that wouldn't be able to path to somewhere they could cause harm, e.g. behind a window or bars, or on a different level with no ramps or stairs nearby. Also perhaps the presence of military could count as "escort" making civilians feel safer.
I recently had some civilians that couldn't leave my surface courtyard because some trolls were sitting on top of the walls in the corner where the stairs down were, and my guys continually got scared away.


More related, will these changes to combat also affect how worn armor is penetrated, and possibly damaged? (Crazy example, an unarmed ettin unable to touch a civilian because the civilian was wearing pig tail clothes. More normal, iron armor deflecting each and every blow from a copper weapon and never getting the tiniest dent.)

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.

Or, similarly, being dropped into the fiery pit from whence they came.

I think you're right -- there should be specific "destroy" conditions for artifacts, but they should be very specific, not the result of normal combat or use.

[Orkel]

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.

Degradation should depend on the strength of the thing it's hitting. An exceptional steel axe cutting through basic copper armor like butter shouldn't degrade at the same speed than if it was trying to cut masterful bronze.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.

Degradation should depend on the strength of the thing it's hitting. An exceptional steel axe cutting through basic copper armor like butter shouldn't degrade at the same speed than if it was trying to cut masterful bronze.

For normal items, sure, but I think there's a good argument that the player shouldn't have to deal with that in the case of artifacts. For one thing, since you can't control the material, they're as likely to be made of low strength materials like bone as they are anything else, so using standard degradation for them would make many artifacts practically disintegrate when used. For another, it's just better for story purposes if artifacts are a little special. For a third, "repairing" artifacts doesn't really make sense, since their creation requires a special mood. So on, so forth.

[G-Flex]

I haven't handled cumulative bruising/denting yet.  It'll probably have to operate at that level, with the bruise number, but you'd really want organs to burst and so on.  The complicated reality of actual wet tissues and organ shapes isn't reflected at all.  It might have to be a property of a body part that lets it burst like a spleen or collapse like a lung, but cumulative bruising will be enough to cause function loss and death, anyway.  That part should be easier.

Of course, in addition to bursting, there's stuff like a bruise simply getting worse and causing more general tissue damage/internal bleeding, and in the case of brains (think: professional boxers trying to knock each other out) some sense of concussions and repetitive minor brain trauma which type isn't permanent, and that sort of thing. Just throwing that out there.


I'm liking the stuff about fractures though. Things are definitely looking up.

[Aquillion]

If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3

Item repairs would also be good because they'd help you keep your supplies at a constant level -- one problem I can potentially see is players constantly having to manually check their weapons and make sure that they have the correct amounts, replacing stuff that has worn out.

Of course, mandates are, in theory, meant to handle this kind of thing, if the relevant nobles can be taught to be smart about them...

[Baughn]

Contingency orders for the job manager is on the top-ten wishlist, which Toady has stated he'll try to implement once the current version is reasonably bug-free. That could still be a while, but it's coming.

Linking it to the mandate system is a good idea. You should bring it up in the appropriate suggestion thread, if it hasn't already been.

[Jiri Petru]

Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(

I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible) Will they try to run to an armory to get a new weapon? If yes, how will that work with all the arsenal dwarf bureaucracy when they can't just pick up a weapon on a whim?

An interesting solution would be to have each dwarf carry two weapons by default (determined by default uniforms... say one weapon for the "light" leather uniform, two weapons for the "heavy" metal uniform). Better yet, have backup weapons dependent on the main weapon. Macedwarfs probably don't need backups. Swordsdwarves and speardwarves, on the other hand, should carry a backup warhammer or something that doesn't break.

EDIT: This leads to the issue of being able to tell your dwarves to use certain weapons for this fight only. "It's a colossus, throw away your spears, pick up hammers"... without needing to wait for the arsenal dwarf and preferably without much micromanagement.   Because without being able to specify weapons now, the realistic material system along with weapon damage would make fighting mineral beats too broken.

[Orkel]

If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3

Item repairs would also be good because they'd help you keep your supplies at a constant level -- one problem I can potentially see is players constantly having to manually check their weapons and make sure that they have the correct amounts, replacing stuff that has worn out.

Of course, mandates are, in theory, meant to handle this kind of thing, if the relevant nobles can be taught to be smart about them...

Maybe make it like the tanner's shop, automatically let the fixer dwarf take the weapon from the soldier, go fix it and then bring it back to the dude. This would happen as soon as an item reaches a certain status of degradation, and the soldier is not active (to prevent mid-battle weapon robbery which would be hilarious but deadly)

[Footkerchief]

In case anyone's wondering, I don't think that this:

Weapon degradation will definitely change all of this colossus fighting, at least with non-adamantine weapons.

was meant to imply that weapon/armor degradation is actually being implemented yet.

[Orkel]

I personally have been talking of the future when it will be. As far as it may be.

[greycat]

I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible)

Likewise... once we can use Marksdwarves again, what will happen to Marksdwarves who run out of ammo mid-fight?  Ideally I'd like them to pick up the nearest bolts they can find, which, if I had my way, would be in a stockpile right there beside their assigned place on the fortified tower/parapets.  I'm worried that they'd either sit there until the Arsenal Dwarf wakes up and finishes drinking, or they'd charge the enemy with their crossbow and start bashing.  And even if the A.D. is awake and active, he might assign them a pile of bolts that's halfway across the map, instead of the ones right next to them.

[steveman0]

There are tissue holes that develop that allow passing to the tissues underneath, but it's not really satisfying since the attacking weapon has to go in without touching the edges like that Operation game.  If it touches the edges, it has to pass through the entire tissue as usual.

Dwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.


Also: Pretty please marksdwarfs next!

[Mel_Vixen]

There are tissue holes that develop that allow passing to the tissues underneath, but it's not really satisfying since the attacking weapon has to go in without touching the edges like that Operation game.  If it touches the edges, it has to pass through the entire tissue as usual.

Couldnt you split the contact area in two parts? While one part of the contact area has to handle the normal setup the second could go into the open wound but only as much as the first part allows.