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[subject name here]

let the free market decide.

[Nether]

Will only take off if the source code is released IMO. If it is released then it could become a very nice game to have next to DF.

[BuriBuriZaemon]

Okay, we have Dwarf Fortress, Elf Treetop City, Goblin Camp. What's next? Human Metropolis? Kobold Cave? Bunny Hole?

[Footkerchief]

So does it mean everyone should start loving 4chan and its habitants?

Uh, for better or worse, a lot of people here already do.

[Asehujiko]

DF is a world simulator.
GC is a city builder.
Different games.
The Goblin Camp guy is an ass for the same reason the Darkfail Online team(Which I suspect, consists solely of Tasos samefagging) is an ass: Unwarranted attacks on a completely unrelated game. The E:WoM guy would be an ass too if he started mouthing off about his citybuilding being better then the citybuilding in DA:O.

Tl;dr, you're right for the wrong reasons.

[Kogan Loloklam]

He said he made it because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.
His "Demo" makes a big point of showing off his UI.
He didn't talk about anything else the game has. It's just a fancy UI, and that made because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.

Therefore, regarding the rage he is getting... He was asking for it.

I still don't get this.  How is he asking for it?  One of the things he doesn't like about DF's current direction is the lack of UI, so he's showing off a better UI.

See below.

He said he made it because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.
His "Demo" makes a big point of showing off his UI.
He didn't talk about anything else the game has. It's just a fancy UI, and that made because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.

Therefore, regarding the rage he is getting... He was asking for it.

That is incredibly stupid...

Good on him, he didn't like the direction DF was going so instead of sitting back and complaining like the aspies on this board he decided to make his own game. What would you rather him do?

How about post something that, I don't know, contains some kind of gameplay elements? "Look at my mouse UI! Isn't it pretty!" is a deliberate stab with no content. He's gotta put his money where his mouth is. Even Impaler was able to provide that. He made a grand claim, that his game was inspired by Dwarf Fortress but he didn't like the path it was going, and then decided to back up that claim, he used a UI video. It wasn't a video on how flooring requires material. It wasn't a video on how there is goblins and orcs. It was a video expressing his UI. A UI is important, defines a game, but the UI is not any way to get good positive information out for your game.

His comments are brilliantly constructed (edit: next word should be trolling, not critiques) critiques of Dwarf Fortress that have nothing to back them up.  It is rare to see such a deliberate troll against an entire community executed so flawlessly. He was "Asking" for the hate. He now has it. He can point to us and say "See, look at the fanboi rage!"
Anyone who spends a few minutes examining his comments can see what he is doing though. He isn't a positive force in programming, unlike Toady One. This isn't part of the "Open Source Battleground" that Impaler was fighting. This is deliberate trolling with someone who has nothing to back it up.

I could write a program demonstrating EVERYTHING in his video in less than a day. If I say that I did it because I didn't like the direction his game was going and made it black on white rather than white on black his shows, what would I be trying to accomplish? If you guys who support his actions really think he was so innocent, show me a video posted prior to his "UI Demo" that shows gameplay features.

This isn't Fanboiism, it's pure and simple hatred over hostile methods exhibited by a trolling programmer.

[Footkerchief]

How about post something that, I don't know, contains some kind of gameplay elements? "Look at my mouse UI! Isn't it pretty!" is a deliberate stab with no content. He's gotta put his money where his mouth is. Even Impaler was able to provide that. He made a grand claim, that his game was inspired by Dwarf Fortress but he didn't like the path it was going, and then decided to back up that claim, he used a UI video. It wasn't a video on how flooring requires material. It wasn't a video on how there is goblins and orcs. It was a video expressing his UI. A UI is important, defines a game, but the UI is not any way to get good positive information out for your game.

His comments are brilliantly constructed critiques of Dwarf Fortress that have nothing to back them up.  It is rare to see such a deliberate troll against an entire community executed so flawlessly. He was "Asking" for the hate. He now has it. He can point to us and say "See, look at the fanboi rage!"
Anyone who spends a few minutes examining his comments can see what he is doing though. He isn't a positive force in programming, unlike Toady One. This isn't part of the "Open Source Battleground" that Impaler was fighting. This is deliberate trolling with someone who has nothing to back it up.

I could write a program demonstrating EVERYTHING in his video in less than a day. If I say that I did it because I didn't like the direction his game was going and made it black on white rather than white on black his shows, what would I be trying to accomplish? If you guys who support his actions really think he was so innocent, show me a video posted prior to his "UI Demo" that shows gameplay features.

This isn't Fanboiism, it's pure and simple hatred over hostile methods exhibited by a trolling programmer.

What?  You're saying his critiques are invalid because he didn't post a video of gameplay elements?

[Kogan Loloklam]

What?  You're saying his critiques are invalid because he didn't post a video of gameplay elements?

No, I am saying the outrage over his statements are justified because he didn't post a video of gameplay elements.

[Footkerchief]

Which particular statements outraged you?  If you admit his critiques are "brilliantly constructed," why does it matter whether he posts videos of gameplay elements?  Would his critiques still make you just as angry if they came from a random Suggestions poster (one not making a DF-inspired game)?

[Kogan Loloklam]

It was his "Trolling" that was brilliantly constructed, not his critiques. I apologize for miswording that. I'm a little out of it. Don't NyQuil and post

His critique consisted pretty much of "I don't like the direction dwarf fortress is going in."

If that were posted on suggestions, I wouldn't care. I'd shrug and ignore it.
If it were backed up with a video that consisted entirely of a different UI, I'd probably shrug it off and say "Well, he doesn't like the UI."
If that person then made the claim that his game could be considered something worth playing because it is taking Dwarf Fortress in a different direction and only showing a UI as to why it is supposed to be liked, I'd get rather annoyed but still capable of ignoring it.

If that same individual then started making thinly veiled potshots against the way that Dwarf Fortress has been developed without having a game of his own to show as to how it "should be done", then I'd call him a troll and say he deserves whatever negative statements he gets.

His "Trolling" is beautiful in the 'art of trolling', but as for confidence in him as a programmer, or desire to examine his game later on? They didn't accomplish either of those goals. They also haven't managed to inform me as to what his dissatisfaction with Dwarf Fortress was (besides the UI), meaning as critiques, they were pretty poor, unless his problem is ONLY the UI, in which case I must say he got that point across flawlessly. Since I don't think it is, his "Critiques" sucked, no matter how brilliant his trolling was.

[Aribar Hunter]

(I really don't want to post this. Please don't let this escalate this petty 'war'.)

After watching the video and reading through both this thread and the one on SA, I would hope that it'd be obvious that he relatively just started this project. He's making a Dwarf Fortress-like (y'know, like Rogue and Roguelikes?) and, while he has a good bit accomplished so far, he's obviously very early into the project. The UI is likely one thing he wanted to show off because it's probably the feature most worked on so far. His comments have either answered questions about the project, or sarcastic pokes in response to flames.

Reading between the lines is what is getting all of these silly mixed messages. Maybe he is just making a game since he's not satisfied with Dwarf Fortress? He's clearly said that his game is inspired by Dwarf Fortress, so it's not like he's trying to take credit for the whole idea. People can like and be fans of both games at the same time. They can still donate to Toady. Heck, if this guy does go open source then he possibly won't accept donations since that may be problematic. If he is trolling the Dwarf Fortress community (which I highly doubt) then he has massively succeeded. Even disregarding the sarcastic, fake rage posts here, there are still a lot of enraged fans.


Topics like these make the Dwarf Fortress community look terrible, and make me ashamed to even post here. The guy made a Youtube video, some twits, and some posts in a thread talking about his game (I'd hardly call that a large amount of advertising) and receives a massive wave of hostility and backlash from this forum. Some of you people are treating Dwarf Fortress like it's your own game, or heck, even your first child. It's okay to be a fan of the game. To be fanatical towards it and its creator, and be offended at negative criticism or works inspired by it, is a bit too far. Even if some of the detractors of Goblin Camp say they aren't butthurt or whatever, their posts clearly speak otherwise. It's okay not to like this game, but making outrageous claims makes you and this entire community look like nothing but Toady-worshiping fanboys and girls. You don't want that.

Just... Please think before posting.

...

So, Goblin Camp. What will the elephants and carp of that game be like?

[Kogan Loloklam]

So, Goblin Camp. What will the elephants and carp of that game be like?

When he discusses this rather than how he doesn't like that most features in a different alpha game are half-finished, I will consider your view on his actions valid.

[GlyphGryph]

The only problem I have with it is that its ripping off Kobold Camps name. Goblins live in towers people.

This is actually the first thing I thought too - "Who's ripping off Kobold Camps name to use for goblins?"

Edit to add: Oh yeah, I wish him luck too. The chorus to "I don't like the way this free thing does something" always seems to be "You think you could do better yourself? Prove it!" and this guy is doing that! More power to him, then.

[PenguinOverlord]

Why are you guys screaming about this and not Dwarfed? This makes us look bad.

[Desdichado]

Living in rural China, I occasionally have internet outages for a few days, but this thread evolved rather well without my input anyway. Good to see the level-headed forum-goers came out in strength here, but a few posters here need to be a little less passionate and possessive about DF, heh. In the past, I've played games simply because they had great communities built up around them, so the way that a forum community acts as a whole can affect the success of the game that it supports. Let's keep that in mind.

I'm taking a sig quote from this thread, if its okay. The highlight of it, imo.