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[Srial]

I've always been a big fan in games of using random chance to add elements of challenge.  Random neighbors, random race, random starting location whatever.  That way you have to figure out where you are and what you have before you can even begin to adapt to it.

Are there any thoughts on a way to do this with dwarf fortress?  I'm thinking the following areas off the top of my head but any other ideas welcome.

1) Random embark location:   I suppose I can just generate any old world, and then take the first embark point offered.  But is that truly random?  I thought I read somewhere on these forums the first embark spot had a rhyme and/or reason to it though, like it was selected to be a 'pretty good' locale.  Any idea if that's true?

2) Random dwarf skills:  That's kinda easy.  I can just generate a random number from 1 - (total number of skills) and put points in them that way.  Pain in the ass, but it's random and fits the bill and I could even create a little program or shell script to do that.

3) Random starting items: I have no idea how to go about that.  Any thoughts?

[Snook]

The first one could be fun, but I imagine the second two would occasionally make for a very, very hard game. I'm imagining a bunch of liars, intimidators, and appraisers (lawyers lol) embarking with bins full of jewels and gold bars and not a pick, axe, or anvil between them. It'd be close to impossible unless you made it to the first caravan...

[Srial]

Eh, number 2 isn't really any harder than a challenge where you start with zero skills.    Number 3 isn't any harder than starting with nothing but the wood on your wagon.

What I'm trying to capture here are the kind of stories that only randomness can tell.  "Okay, 2 advisers to the king, a fisher, a weaponsmith and 3 brewers embark on an good aligned desert with only 62 cats, and 4 bottles of rum.  GO!"   Cause, I bet no one's done that before. 

What I really want is the ability to turn on dwarf fortress, hit 'create random embark' button and suddenly I have a world and some dwarves and have to figure out the rest.  I don't have that button so I'm looking for ideas on the next best thing.

I totally expect sometimes randomness will give me unwinnable situations, but hey, that's kinda Fun too.

[avari]

I suppose a random embark location can be achieved by randomizing three pairs of coordinates (world, region and local) and manually embarking there. For more randomness use a random embark rectangle size as well. If the location is impossible (ocean or mountain), randomize three more coordinates.

Since embark profiles can be saved as plain text files, it should be possible to create a program to construct random embark profiles. However, you would first have to create a database of all possible skills and items, which sounds like a lot of work. After that you could set some basic rules for choosing random skills and items from the database.

[thijser]

you can manualy create a certain randomness in items by counting the total numbers of catagories and randomly generating a number in that. Then you simply generate another number to determine which item you take trough this may take a lot of time.

[jaccarmac]

If you guys are still alive I'm actually working on a project to do this right now!

[joeclark77]

Easy method: Load up the game, then get your wife or toddler to come choose an embark site that seems suitable.

[jaccarmac]

But I have no wife...

I have programming though...

[Larix]

The problem with trying to randomise an embark profile is that you don't get your predefined set of item choices: the items you have access to are determined by what your civ has on its sites. They can own some savage warm forest locations, offering you brown recluse spider man silk, they can suffer from a total lack of copper ores. And thanks to the large number of gems and minerals possible, there will be so many more completely useless than useful items (~100 types of 'large gem' vs. 3-5 types of picks and four of drink) that most of the time simple randomisation would just spit out the equivalent of a zero item embark.

[Finn]

Still I like the idea of having a random embark location.  I've always hoped someone would write a tool to do such a thing.  I don't mind picking equipment, skills, etc, myself after that. 

Jaccamarc, have you started a thread about your program in the mod section?

[jaccarmac]

The problem with trying to randomise an embark profile is that you don't get your predefined set of item choices: the items you have access to are determined by what your civ has on its sites. They can own some savage warm forest locations, offering you brown recluse spider man silk, they can suffer from a total lack of copper ores.

This is the biggest problem that I can see as well. However, without writing something to work with a hacking utility, which I don't particularly want to do, there aren't many options. My pseudo-solution is two-fold: make the utility very configurable so people can randomize just items that are common enough and just deal with it. After all, embark profiles are similar in that they often can't be met 100% in a given game.

And thanks to the large number of gems and minerals possible, there will be so many more completely useless than useful items (~100 types of 'large gem' vs. 3-5 types of picks and four of drink) that most of the time simple randomisation would just spit out the equivalent of a zero item embark.

See my above note about configurability. Also, this way is more FUN! I did a random embark (without writing anything, just genning random numbers and picking items from the menus) and ended up with a bunch of useless flutes. To me, it mixes up the predictability of starting with a few items you need. This would force players to adjust dramatically to the situation, which I think adds depth.

Still I like the idea of having a random embark location.  I've always hoped someone would write a tool to do such a thing.  I don't mind picking equipment, skills, etc, myself after that. 

That wasn't originally what I intended to do, but since several people seem to like the idea of random location, I'll focus more on that!

Jaccamarc, have you started a thread about your program in the mod section?

Not yet... To tell the truth, I really haven't had access to the computer I program on for several weeks, so this is strictly conceptual. There is a github project now, so I might just make a thread...

P.S. I decided to use github's random name generator to name the project. It's called drunken-bear. I was pleased.

[Id Utalrisen]

The first one could be fun, but I imagine the second two would occasionally make for a very, very hard game. I'm imagining a bunch of liars, intimidators, and appraisers (lawyers lol) embarking with bins full of jewels and gold bars and not a pick, axe, or anvil between them. It'd be close to impossible unless you made it to the first caravan...

That sounds AWESOME, and only makes me like OP's idea more.

[jaccarmac]

Well, you guys have convinced me to add a thread specifically for Drunken-Bear in the Modding forum. Head over there with your encouragement and great ideas, and leave this old, dead thread alone!

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125717.0