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Author Topic: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?  (Read 5803 times)

jaked122

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2010, 09:42:16 pm »

ideas should be spread freely, and used freely. I don't believe in the ownership of an idea. I believe that the benefits of uncontrolled ideas are greater than all the ways idiots can ruin it.
until the day that this is made law, I will respect the rules, despite my disagreement with them.

forsaken1111

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2010, 12:07:07 am »

ideas should be spread freely, and used freely. I don't believe in the ownership of an idea. I believe that the benefits of uncontrolled ideas are greater than all the ways idiots can ruin it.
until the day that this is made law, I will respect the rules, despite my disagreement with them.
So if you make up an awesome idea and you go to make and sell a product based on the idea, and I come along and make the exact same product using your idea but I market it better and sell 10x as much as you do, forcing you to go bankrupt and stealing all your customers... you're ok with this?

If so, please e-mail me any ideas you come up with.
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Muz

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2010, 06:41:36 am »

Muz, we have to find citations now.
I tell what I see at the university (and technically, I was speaking about fundamental research in physic, which rarely produce patent, for all I know) and what the professors are complaining about. Now of course, that kind of research is damn expensive.

It's pretty hard to cite personal experience without breaching privacy. I could spend an hour digging up some data on it, but I'm lazy because this thread will discuss something else by tommorrow and the point will be lost :P

But you're likely right about patents not working for physics. I didn't notice that angle. Psychology ties well with politicians and gets money from them. Engineering is sort of like a sweet spot that businesses rely on. I see patents as sort of like a business model. There's no money to be made from research alone, patents help turn it into cash.

Even without patents, fundamental research would still get a lot less funding because there's no guarantee of success and what success they do get would most likely not be commercializable. They might get a slightly bigger cut of the pie without the patent system, but the pie would be a little smaller.


ideas should be spread freely, and used freely. I don't believe in the ownership of an idea. I believe that the benefits of uncontrolled ideas are greater than all the ways idiots can ruin it.
until the day that this is made law, I will respect the rules, despite my disagreement with them.

Uh, there's no law against using ideas freely :P You can't patent, copyright, trademark an idea. You can only patent a specific implementation of an idea. And only when it's not obvious or when it's not already in use. Patent laws are tough. AND if you didn't know, patents are freely visible to everyone. You just have to pay when commercializing it. You can, say, invent something else off a similar concept and that'd be fine, as long as the patented stuff isn't a component used in your own invention.

I'm sure you mean implementation.. well then, the law only goes as far as you let it. They cover the concept that if you spend a few years building up an implementation and go out and claim that it's yours, then you can do what you like with it for a few years. After that, it's all free knowledge.

It's like say... locking your house. The law says that people aren't allowed to enter your house without permission, but if you're the party type who wants everyone to come, then you can open to everyone. Or if you want specific people to come in exchange for a cake or something, then it's up to you.
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Virex

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2010, 01:40:16 pm »

I find it hard to believe that there are really no secrets in the corporate research world, When someone's being charged with stealing over 1 billion worth of trade secrets. What's more probable is that everyone's aware of the basics of what the others are doing, but patents are about the details and those don't get shared.
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Sergius

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2010, 05:10:00 pm »

I find it hard to believe that there are really no secrets in the corporate research world, When someone's being charged with stealing over 1 billion worth of trade secrets. What's more probable is that everyone's aware of the basics of what the others are doing, but patents are about the details and those don't get shared.

Who said there aren't any secrets?
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Hastur

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Re: (Intellectual Property) How do you convince someone?
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2010, 12:27:23 am »

Sooo...I've been in a chat debate for half an hour about IP. He thinks that you can't 'own' a thought or idea, that with 6 billion people, someone will always come up with that idea on their own, and that patents and copyrights are 'stupid'.

What do you tell them? (We both live in America, BTW)
I've tried explaining how patents help give people a reason to innovate new things, but apparently someone else would come up with the idea on their own anyways. :(



EDIT:
Quote
that's the exact issue, i don't accept society >_>
...it's a lost cause, isn't it?
and...and: "once a though has entered the brain it cannot be erased, once you see the world in a certain way its nearly impossible to see the world for what it truly is."

He's as stubborn as I am, I guess.

We can discuss IP here too...I personally think it's great, and is a good encouragement to innovators, and therefore good for the public as well. (especially once the patent expires.)

I think if somone comes up with an idea they are not entitled to anything, It is up to the inventor to apply it to make money if that is what they want. If that means keeping it secret then so be it. if that also means taking someones ideas for the betterment of humanity then so be it too. Creators will try to enforce a stanglehold and make people come to them, and competitors will try to compete, the law is just a hammer to threaten and keep people in line with,is somone in another county with different laws bound by the same laws? i say he is not bound at all, it is up to the individuals self imposed sense of duty to his fellow man or fairness.
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