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[Sevrun]

Finlandization refers to a situation in which you haven't conqured a country, and they retain sovereignty, but they are kept out of international politics by a larger neighbor country. As such, their entire international policy and some of their national policies are determined by an outside force.

I think the more straight-forward term your looking for is a puppet state Metal.  Which is what a lot of conspiracy theorists insist the U.S. has done with Iraq to get its oil and will do with Afghanistan to get its mineral deposits.  Not a half bad idea, expect it's utterly beyond what our government is capable of doing successfully. 
  On an unrelated side note, the base at Rammstein (pardon if I butchered the spelling) was largely turned over to the German government a few years back.  The medical facility was part of the base, but to my knowledge remains under U.S. control. 

oh and Phmcw, I can assure you, most of us want a military base in Germany about as much as you want us there.  But given how we are always _expected_ to help when things get ugly, spreading resources around to more quickly react does help from a strategic standpoint.  Besides, you guys are trouble! j/k  Now if only I could figure out why my government was turning away help when over a dozen European countries tried to return the favor recently.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Finlandization and Puppet States are different concepts. A puppet state is set up after a country has been conqured, as annexing entire countries is frowned upon these days. A Finlandized country just knows that they have to listen to their controller in the international stage. A puppet state is directly controlled by the conqueror.

[Leafsnail]

Ah, so America wants to maintain its monopoly on Finlandized European countries?

In all seriousness, I don't think Russia would suddenly start having a bigger influence just because American troops pull out.  We do have our own armies, y'know...

[Aqizzar]

In all seriousness, I don't think Russia would suddenly start having a bigger influence just because American troops pull out.  We do have our own armies, y'know...

Not to mention Russia really isn't eager to go around starting wars and occupying territories from any country that could actually kick its ass.  I mean, sure, Chechnya, Ossetia, Kyrgyzstan, who gives a shit about those places?  But they know as well as anybody that if every American soldier left Germany and central Europe, if Russia so much as sneezed on Germany, we'd be back in about three days.

[Sevrun]

ahh, ok, thanks for clearing that up them Metal

Ah, so America wants to maintain its monopoly on Finlandized European countries?

In all seriousness, I don't think Russia would suddenly start having a bigger influence just because American troops pull out.  We do have our own armies, y'know...

  Could not have said it better myself, though most of those bases aren't there to subdue the local populace, they're primarily logistical bases.  and yes before anyone starts ranting and slobbering all over themselves over the possible uses of a large supply depot in the midst of another country I am well aware of the potential uses.  Being a veteran Marine means I have studied that sorta thing.

So what were they doing in Georgia Aqizzar?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Plus, most of the countries that were formerly a part of the Soviet Union have no intention of going back. I doubt that Ukraine has forgotten that little incident with the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, and Georgia just got invaded a few years ago. They would have to be first on Russia's list, and they would fight Russia to the last man. It wouldn't be a good start.

[Aqizzar]

So what were they doing in Georgia Aqizzar?

Like I said, who in the serious international community that would pose a genuine military threat to Russia really gives a shit about a tiny gangster-nation on Russia's border?  When the Russian Army shows up in Turkey or Poland, then we'll see what happens.

[Sevrun]

Right... so you've already forgotten them buzzing the Alaskan border about six months before the Georgia incident too.  The only reason they aren't busting our balls right now is because they don't gain anything by unifying a divided enemy. (opponent, adversary, whatever)  Do not underestimate the importance of those socalled gangster-nations Aqizzar.  all it took was one of those and a little strategic planning to break the U.S.S.R.  Any more, we're not all that different, unfortunately.

[ChairmanPoo]

The USSR collapsed on itself for its own economic reasons. IMO the tales about Reagan or Carod Wotwhatever being major factors in that equation are at best exaggerations and at worst wistful thinking.

[Leafsnail]

I don't have any problems with American bases here... nothing wrong with letting your allies have advanced bases in your territory.

I think we also have some American nuclear missiles here, but I'm not sure.

[Aqizzar]

all it took was one of those and a little strategic planning to break the U.S.S.R.  Any more, we're not all that different, unfortunately.

And once again, that was a nation that the USSR actively invaded, and was right on its doorstep.  The only way you could make that comparison is if the US went to war with Mexico, actually more like Jamaica or something, and Russia started funneling billions of dollars of weapons to them.

[Sevrun]

The USSR collapsed on itself for its own economic reasons. IMO the tales about Reagan or Carod Wotwhatever being major factors in that equation are at best exaggerations and at worst wistful thinking.

I was referring to the economic costs of sustaining the invasion into Afghanistan, though you may want to take a look at history if you're unsure if Reagan had anything to do with it.  They were trying to keep up with the U.S. and Reagan announced the 600 ship navy along with everything else that was going on.  It was a challenge they couldn't beat, and apparently couldn't ignore.  I don't think we could have done it either... luckily we didn't have to.

[RedKing]

Wait...how in Hades did an immigration debate turn into a hypothetical of Russian domination of Europe?

*scans thread*. Ah. Random right-winger projection of geopolitical wet dreams. Should have known.


And they wouldn't need to use troops to "finlandize" Europe. They'd use Gazprom. Northern Europe gets awfully chilly in the winter without all that lovely natural gas being pumped through Russian pipelines.

[ChairmanPoo]

And they wouldn't need to use troops to "finlandize" Europe. They'd use Gazprom. Northern Europe gets awfully chilly in the winter without all that lovely natural gas being pumped through Russian pipelines.

They are already doing that :p

That being said, many European countries keep alternate gas sources. And Germany is doing that ATM too AFAIK.

[Phmcw]

On topic, I love the kindness and compassion shown by a country whose citizen were all, a few hundred years ago, undesired migrant.
It's almost as heartwarming as the one shown to invaded people by a nation who just escaped genocide.

Never, ever think nationalism is a good think. Patriotism is just being it's country supremacist.