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[fenrif]

If they are just going to go around making stuff up, its not very likely to stand up in court.  A cop gets charged with making stuff up to arrest someone a couple of times, and he's not going to be a cop anymore.

You're joking, right? There are enough obscure and vagely worded laws to arrest you no matter what you're doing. Even if they do make somthing up, they only need to say they had "reasonable suspicion" that you were breaking the law.

Give a gift to your girlfriend and later have sex? Arrested for Prostitution.
Jokingly shove your friend? Arrested for Assault.
Say "I'll kill person X." out of anger? Arrested for Conspiracy to Commit Murder.
Stop moving on public property for a moment? Arrested for Loitering.
Protest any of the above? Arrested for Resisting Arrest.

All the police have to do is watch you, and they'll have a crime in miniutes. It might not stand up in court, but it will involve you being arrested. The cop certainly won't lose his job over it.

I know people who have had trouble with the police for things such as driving too "carefully" and driving with their window down.

If the police want to mess with you they'll definatly find a way.

[smjjames]

Well if they had their radio blaring at high or max volume and their window is open, no wonder they got stopped by the cops.

[jaked122]

too bad the very basis of western law includes the idea of only punishing for actions and not for thoughts

[fenrif]

Well if they had their radio blaring at high or max volume and their window is open, no wonder they got stopped by the cops.

If they were shooting up some heroin while trying to arm a thermonuclear device then no wonder they were stopped by the cops.

If they were raping the last living specimen of the rare snow leopard while posting racist comments on youtube then no wonder they were stopped by the cops.

If they were blaspheming against the flying spaghetti monster then no wonder they were stopped by the cops.

Make-believe is fun.

[Zifnab]

If they are just going to go around making stuff up, its not very likely to stand up in court.  A cop gets charged with making stuff up to arrest someone a couple of times, and he's not going to be a cop anymore.

You're joking, right? There are enough obscure and vagely worded laws to arrest you no matter what you're doing. Even if they do make somthing up, they only need to say they had "reasonable suspicion" that you were breaking the law.

Give a gift to your girlfriend and later have sex? Arrested for Prostitution.
Jokingly shove your friend? Arrested for Assault.
Say "I'll kill person X." out of anger? Arrested for Conspiracy to Commit Murder.
Stop moving on public property for a moment? Arrested for Loitering.
Protest any of the above? Arrested for Resisting Arrest.

All the police have to do is watch you, and they'll have a crime in miniutes. It might not stand up in court, but it will involve you being arrested. The cop certainly won't lose his job over it.

If police are just going to make random shit up all of the time, then why do we have a police force at all?  There has to be some basic level of trust in the system.

And as race paranoid as we are in america, if some cop is making stuff up to deport illegals, he and his department/city/state are going to find themselves on the wrong side of a lawsuit pretty quickly.

[fenrif]

People don't generally trust the police. Least noone I know. Certinaly noone who has had any dealing with the police whatsoever. 'Course this is in the UK, but from what I read it's prevelant in the USA too.

If someone in uniform makes something up, and you call them on it it becomes a case of your word versus theirs. You being a suspected criminal. Them being a respected police officer. You can imagine how that goes.

This is part of the reason why police forces are becoming hugely paranoid about having their picture taken. They keep trying to use obscure laws (or anti terrorism ones depending) to make it illegal to take their picture or record them in any way. It was in the news a month or so ago.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If police are just going to make random shit up all of the time, then why do we have a police force at all?  There has to be some basic level of trust in the system.

They arn't making anything up. Every example I listed is a totaly legal reason to arrest someone under United States Law. They only have to watch and wait if they want you arrested. The Police are given power, but that power isn't kept well enough in check. Eventualy, anyone can be corrupted by the temptation of power abuse.

[Nikov]

If police are just going to make random shit up all of the time, then why do we have a police force at all?  There has to be some basic level of trust in the system.

They arn't making anything up. Every example I listed is a totaly legal reason to arrest someone under United States Law. They only have to watch and wait if they want you arrested. The Police are given power, but that power isn't kept well enough in check. Eventualy, anyone can be corrupted by the temptation of power abuse.

Article 3 and the 6th Amendment.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Article 3 and the 6th Amendment.

Article 3 covers Federal Courts, Federal Jurisdiction, Trial by Jury, and Treason.

Amendment VI ensures a speedy and public trial, with an imparial jury. It demands that the defendent be informed of the crime brought against them. It demands cross-examination. It demands that the accused be given counsel.

None of that contradicts anything I have said.

[sonerohi]

It means that a corrupt cop is checked by the Judicial system, if everything works properly.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It means that a corrupt cop is checked by the Judicial system, if everything works properly.

Well, it quite obviously dosen't work properly.

[Lord Dakoth]

Back on topic of illegal immigration...

I see lots of criticism of Arizona for not treating illegals the way that they supposedly deserve to be treated. Many of you don't understand the problems that can result from illegal immigration.

I live in Tucson, Arizona, and I have for my whole life, so I feel like I can give insight on the other side of the story. There are several significant problems that result from illegal immigration.

> They are most likely not properly immunized, and as a result, can unwittingly spread serious diseases like tuberculosis.

> They receive support from government programs: government programs that are funded by taxpayer dollars.

> To be smuggled across the border, immigrants can either pay large fees to the smuggler, or smuggle drugs across the border instead. Leniency on illegal immigration means letting illegal substances come into the country. This increases the presence of drug smugglers near the border. Drug smugglers have an awful tendency of shooting people who get in their way.

> To work in the U.S., one must provide proof of citizenship. Illegal immigrants who are hired for work are not subject to the same taxes and regulations that American citizens are, including minimum wage. This puts citizens at a competitive disadvantage.

[Nikov]

It means that a corrupt cop is checked by the Judicial system, if everything works properly.

Well, it quite obviously dosen't work properly.

Yes, obviously your biased statements against the police prove, irrefutably, that law enforcement runs roughshod over the citizenry in the United States of Alcatraz.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It means that a corrupt cop is checked by the Judicial system, if everything works properly.

Well, it quite obviously dosen't work properly.

Yes, obviously your biased statements against the police prove, irrefutably, that law enforcement runs roughshod over the citizenry in the United States of Alcatraz.

Just as much as you pointing out regularly ignored documents of law and acting as if the argument is over proves the police are paragons of justice whom are faultless and well controled?

[fenrif]

Back on topic of illegal immigration...

I see lots of criticism of Arizona for not treating illegals the way that they supposedly deserve to be treated. Many of you don't understand the problems that can result from illegal immigration.

I live in Tucson, Arizona, and I have for my whole life, so I feel like I can give insight on the other side of the story. There are several significant problems that result from illegal immigration.

> They are most likely not properly immunized, and as a result, can unwittingly spread serious diseases like tuberculosis.

> They receive support from government programs: government programs that are funded by taxpayer dollars.

> To be smuggled across the border, immigrants can either pay large fees to the smuggler, or smuggle drugs across the border instead. Leniency on illegal immigration means letting illegal substances come into the country. This increases the presence of drug smugglers near the border. Drug smugglers have an awful tendency of shooting people who get in their way.

> To work in the U.S., one must provide proof of citizenship. Illegal immigrants who are hired for work are not subject to the same taxes and regulations that American citizens are, including minimum wage. This puts citizens at a competitive disadvantage.

You're going to have drug problems at your boarders untill you stop the ridiculous "war on drugs." Immigrants or not. You may aswell crack down on vehicles, since drug dealers use them too.

Anyone coming into your country could be not properly immunized. Illegal or not, again this isn't really a problem with illegal immigrants per se, tourists or visitors could have the exact same problem.

DEY TUK UR JURBS is is arguable, but there are many jobs that legal citizens just wouldn't do even if they were offered more money than illegal immigrants do. I have seen some articles that suggest an increase in illegal immigrants increases unemployment in the native population, but that has more to do with buisness owners exploiting the law for profit.

Check this out. A paper detailing how illegal immigrants in the USA pay more in taxes than they use/cost in social services. So no, they whole "they're using our schools/police/etc for free" thing doesn't really hold water. Also, even though they pay taxes, they don't get to vote. "No taxation without representation" indeed. They also don't get medicaid, unenployment insurance, social security, medicare, or a whole host of other social services.

For the record I was criticizing Arizona for attempting to pass laws that specifically targeted a particular ethnic background for harassment. It's not the "cracking down on immigrants" it's the way they go about it. Passing ambiguous laws that say it's ok to card anyone who might be an illegal immigrant is basically saying it's ok to harass Mexicans and other South Americans.

Everyone understands the problems illegal immigration can bring, it's not something specific to Arizona.