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Author Topic: More underground features and biomes  (Read 3269 times)

Abyssal Squid

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More underground features and biomes
« on: November 27, 2007, 01:49:00 pm »

This has been brought up before, but I think it would be good to bring up again now that we know what the new underground environment looks like.

Caverns: Pretty simple, just a mess of empty space underground, not naturally connected to the surface.  They can be fairly big, maybe up to 3x3 "region" tiles and 2 or 3 levels deep, with the deeper ones holding small pools of water.  Also common, maybe a 50% chance of generation  on every single world tile.  No inhabitants, they're just around to break up the monotony of the underground somewhat, and maybe give a source of water to anybody goofy enough to rely on them.

Underground swamps: Tons of murky pools, a bunch of shrubs, and a handful of towercaps, all growing on tiles made of mud, in an area somewhat bigger than an underground lake.  Similar wildlife to an underground lake, river, or glade, but maybe with a hydra or something sometimes.

Underground glade: Tons of towercaps, some shrubs, and a handful of murky pools, all growing on fungus grass tiles, in an area about the same size as an underground swamp.  Wildlife is generally of a drier sort than swamp/lake/river creatures, so few if any mud- and amphibianmen.  Maybe some sort of underground deer-equivalent would be appropriate.

Underground forest: Like an underground glade, but really big.  Comprises a web of narrow fingers, maybe 2 region tiles thick and 5 apart, that ultimately spans something like 4x4 world map tiles.  Wildlife can come and go from the map edges, and can magically repopulate the way surface wild animals do.  Also, it's got shelves, like this:

code:
############
#  __   ####
###  \     #
############

and so many variants that I could go on all day drawing them.  They'd be somewhat uncommon; maybe half of mountain tiles on the world map would have one, and the only way a non-mountain world tile could get one is if it runs into one from a mountain tile.


Underground lakes would be edged with a bit of underground swamp material, and underground rivers would be edged with a little of either swamp or glade.  Every world map tile has one of lake/swamp/glade, and every mountain tile has two of them, though not two of the same.

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THLawrence

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 02:08:00 pm »

Love the idea of more features. Anything to make digging more interesting then:
Oh, I hit more magnetite. Isn't that wonderful.

Although the exact size, placement and features need to be determined before it should be added to the game. I love the idea of the underground cave system. Not all cave have to be habited, or connect to anything. The cave forests, swamps and glades seem to be just variations of each other but implementing any of them could be lots of fun.
As well the cave river should be more interesting. It is currently just a short river followed by a chasm. No off shoots or tributaries. This could be used to make them more interesting. Perhaps even create smaller underground waterways that connect lakes, ponds swamps, rivers and forests.

I second the Idea for more cave features.

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Abyssal Squid

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 02:33:00 pm »

Of course glades and swamps are just variations on lakes, a glade is just a dried-up swamp, which is just a dried-up lake.  I just think it'd be neat to have features at various stages in their evolution, also to simply have more stuff underground, so that it's more likely to be run into.

One of the problem with having huge cave systems is LOS in fortress mode.  I think underground forests can get away with being completely revealed (in your fortress area) because they'd be relatively open spaces, but a tortuous cave with tons of narrow squeezes and sumps would be hard to map.  Something I considered to help with that is having cavern systems be a bunch of separate caverns blocked off from each other by 1 tile, but that doesn't allow wildlife movement, or hint at where you should dig next.  Maybe a "crevice" tile type, which lets naked creatures through, but can't be seen through.

Also, I agree that cave rivers should be a lot more interesting, maybe starting out from a ton of tiny tributaries like a brook underground, or starting off aboveground but being blocked off at intervals by walls of conglomerate or other aquifer rock.  Many of them should break out onto the surface again to form surface streams, blocked off by permiable rock at this end as at the front.  To keep people from just tracing a stream to its underground source and getting towercaps immediately, tie towercap and shrub growth to the discovery of a swamp or glade, including those bordering a river or lake.  They'd be found in the deepest areas of an underground stream, past several blockages and families of monsters.

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SquashMonster

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 04:35:00 pm »

I like the idea of more underground features, even though the existing ones largely only succeed in messing up my plans.

A few random ideas:
- small and large caverns
- giant fungal growths.  Imagine a twisted tower of towercap wood complete with empty areas and giant parasitic beetles
- giant mole dens.  Or any other burrowing creature
- old tombs
- old fortresses.  These would be a random collection of rooms in 3D space, with some hint of why nobody lives there anymore.  Maybe it's crawling with undead, maybe demons.  Maybe all the rooms are submerged.  Maybe there's no fortress left, just room-shaped obsidian squares.
- golems.  These would be single empty squares with a scary creature inside of them, which wakes up as soon as you mine it out.

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Armok

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 05:28:00 pm »

Seconded.
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Idiom

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 05:44:00 pm »

quote:
old fortresses

How about ancient cities as well? It would be neat to stumble upon the remains of some ex-civilization. Possibly with some artifacts or other rarities...

This has my vote.

[ November 27, 2007: Message edited by: Idiom ]

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Name Lips

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 07:15:00 pm »

I absolutely love this idea. There's no reason you can't have a cave network with a portion of it forested, a portion of it inhabited by SomethingMen, a river flowing through it, and so on.

This is a fantasy world, and we're spending a lot of time digging. There's no reason not to make the underground have its own unique landscape that is interesting to explore and discover.

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Captain Failmore

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 08:17:00 pm »

Compiled list of ideas for additional hidden fun stuff, non-hidden fun stuff, and delicious biomes -

GHOST TOWN -

These would be, for lack of a better way to put it, abandoned cities. They can be dwarven, elven, human, or goblinoid in origin, and would resemble pre-generated cities of various sizes that have simply failed for one reason or another. Ghost towns could have a high probability of being populated by kobolds and highway men as well as having a higher than usual concentration wild animals and hyphen-men. However, due to being heavily picked over by years of looters, it's easy to assume little of value is left behind.

FORSAKEN CITY -

A ghost town in an evil zone, abandoned for obvious reasons. Instead of being abandoned, the inhabitants of the city are now undead, and all too eager to invite you into their community should they discover you. Along with possible kobold hideouts, you may happen upon the fortified den of militant and possibly berzerk survivors.

FIENDISH RUIN -

Remember what used to happen when you found Adamantine?

Remember what your adventurer would find?

In the very least, you're ensured Adamantine, but good luck getting it from the demons that now call the ruins their home. Still, it'd be interesting building a fortress somewhere far from the demons' den, preparing for the day you'll claim it as your own along with all the treasures buried beneath it...

RUINED PLACES OF IMPORTANCE -

These would be isolated buildings, sometimes located buried beneath the earth, that would serve as simple curiosities. They may or may not contain valuable artifacts. Imagine finding a huge catacomb, a beautiful forgotten statue garden, a buried temple, or the throne room of some ancient king, though. It'd be a pleasant if odd surprise. If you find one of these places, maybe the game could spit out some lore that would explain what it is to you, along with an appropriate message. (Bonus points for finding something important to dwarven culture, like an ancestral distillery or something.)

PLACES OF IMPORTANCE THAT WERE RUINED FOR A REASON -

A zombie infested catacomb is fine too, as is a throne room claimed by a lich or some other kind of ageless dark lord. What about a statue garden where the statues came to life? Those Iron Men do leave behind lovely figurines, don't they?

THE TREASURES OF NATURE -

Naturally occurring peculiarities would be interesting to see, both above and below ground. They'd also add a certain level of uncertainty to the game, especially of some of them proved hazardous or beneficial. For example:

  • MASSIVE-ASS GEODES - Small chambers occurring in appropriate rock, lined with appropriate forms of ornamental stone. The walls, floors, and ceilings inside these chambers could have a naturally high value, making them a great place for statue gardens or a particularly ornate dining hall.
  • MASSIVE-ASS BEEHIVES - Filled with massive-ass bees. Linley's Dungeon Crawl had these, and they were oodles of fun. Could be a possible source of wax, honey, chitin, bee venom, and bees. Capturing a queen in a cage and somehow taming it could allow you to make the hive and subsequent bees friendly, leading to the introduction of industrial honey and wax production, as well as war bees. The taming and training of bees may require a special noble, possibly a Master Beekeeper, Grand Apiarist, or The Pain.
  • MASSIVE-ASS METEORITE CRATERS - Round depressions in the ground containing chunks of out-of-place native metal. Understandably rare. These may cause passers-by to begin thinking about what happened to their evolutionary predecessors, which would be particularly interesting or disturbing to dragons, who will either stubbornly avoid or feverishly obsess over craters wherever they happen to be present.
  • MASSIVE-ASS TREES - Also known as an ancient wood, which does not in fact refer to your grandfather. Unusually large and possibly named trees that take up a three-by-three space and are several Z-slices tall. Standing in their presence could induce particular thoughts in passers-by, such as, "... was awestruck by a gigantic tree lately," or, "... stood in the shade of an ancient larch lately." The trees themselves could be revered by the elves, who understandably may become very upset if they're destroyed. When destroyed - which would take a very long time, even for a highly skilled wood cutter - they could leave behind very large quantities of wood. You could then celebrate with a bed-making extravaganza before your fortress is laid to waste by a game-crashingly large elven siege.

Included could be large natural features such as caverns, which will be explained in greater detail below.

GEYSERS -

These have been suggested before. In a zone with a magma vent and an aquifer, regions of the aquifer could extend underground in deep columns. In the center of these columns would be chasm tiles, which periodically release blasts of steam that then shoot upward over several Z-slices. This event is thought provoking to those nearby and also creates a cloud of steam. ("... witnessed the eruption of a mighty geyser lately.") Structures hit by the geyser blast could be damaged, though. (Which would apply exclusively to bridges and above-ground floors.) An alternate method of implementing this could be the introduction of a special chasm-like tile - a fumarole tile, maybe - that doesn't contain chasm baddies and releases steam columns whenever a geyser eruption event occurs.

SULFUROUS FUMAROLE -

A smoldering hole in the ground that releases clouds of miasma instead of steam. Needless to say, you wouldn't want to build near one of these, unless your dwarves like the reek of ass and rotten eggs.

VERY LARGE CAVERNS -

Also known as the cavern biome mentioned previously in the thread. These would be large, open spaces underground usually located in places where aquifers or underground rivers are present that could contain large numbers of subterranean plants and animals, including those all-important tower caps. A variant of caverns could be underground forests, which of course would be filled with tower caps and possibly a Massive-Ass Tree or two. I'd imagine they may also contain underground baddies, however.

"Hey, cool, a cavern! What's with all these giant webs?"

And then his fortress was destroyed.

AS THOUGH THE UNDEAD WEREN'T ENOUGH -

Evil biomes seem to just contain dead trees and foliage. That's silly. I propose a different approach - evil trees and dangerous plants.

  • MURKWOOD TREE - A psychotic mangrove tree. These would indiscriminately attack nearby creatures and undead with their lethal swinging limbs, bashing their foes into fertilizer. They would essentially be immobile creatures that leave behind murkwood logs when killed. (A Massive-Ass Murkwood, also known as an Ancient Murkwood, could count as a fearsome megabeast.)
  • IRON MAIDEN - Another term for a giant Venus fly trap. They move very, very slowly, and spend most of their time preparing to ambush, after which point they latch onto their foes and try to kill them by crushing them.
  • TOWERING STINKHORN - An above-ground tower cap that generates puffs of miasma. Unpleasant, but otherwise harmless. These may not necessarily be confined to evil zones, and could alternately be moved underground where miasma is much bigger problem.
  • ELFBANE - A shrub-like ground cover that almost immediately begins to grow over inanimate dead bodies and body parts in evil zones. It's spores contain a mind-warping mycotoxin, and when the plant fully matures it releases a puff of these hazardous spores. Those exposed to the spores will begin acting rather strangely, with effects ranging from mere confusion and stunning to full-blown insanity. Named elfbane because the elves are lightweights and can't take much of the stuff anyway. If the plant itself is a shrub and can be harvested, it could perhaps be turned into a valuable extract or some kind of dwarven analog of absinthe.

SARGASSO SEA -

It'd just be neat to see messes of seaweed floating around in the water. It wouldn't even have to do anything, unless it washes up on-shore as gulfweed. Maybe then it could be collected or something, though for what I don't know. Food? Dyes? Extracts? Who knows. Probably the most useless idea in this list.

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THLawrence

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 09:05:00 pm »

Ok, I think this is a bug but it still needs to be posted here because it is so funny. I was searching for magma and also found this:

That's the cave pond on this map. It started dry with no creatures in it. How did I know it was the cave pond and not something else. Because one level down there are 2 squares separate from each other and everything else that each contain water and several creatures jammed into a tight space. I have never seen this feature before but it is damn funny.

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evktalo

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2007, 12:59:00 am »

I definitely miss seeing some more underground features. Digging could be more intresting.
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Align

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2007, 07:52:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by SquashMonster:
<STRONG>- old fortresses.  These would be a random collection of rooms in 3D space, with some hint of why nobody lives there anymore.  Maybe it's crawling with undead, maybe demons.  Maybe all the rooms are submerged.  Maybe there's no fortress left, just room-shaped obsidian squares.</STRONG>
Reminds me a lot of Dungeon Keeper, with claiming and all..
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Spiders Everywhere

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 03:44:00 pm »

I want more doom. Digging down in this version should be like digging inward in the old version, except using the the new terrain generation system so you never know exactly what you'll get. I think terrain features should be more common, more dangerous, and more likely to have treasure the deeper you dig. There's nothing worse than building up a powerful fortress and finding your map has no doom in it. Losing is fun!

Here were the ideas I had:

Underground tombs, filled with undead and treasure, including one or two very powerful undead with really good treasure.

Dragon lairs, with dragons and treasure.

Other kinds of rivers: Magma, acid, poison.

Underground forests inhabited by strange and ferocious beasts (some of them tamable), perhaps containing strange and valuable plants with seeds that can only be grown deep underground.

Lost civilizations peopled by unspeakable horrors, the sight of which may cause your dwarves to flee in terror or go temporarily insane.

Temples to terrible elder gods, full of priests and minions and maybe actual elder gods.

The bottom level: Hell itself! Don't go down here unless you're really, really, ready, and you're still gonna die. Imagine that this is where the guys in the demon pits originally crawled up from...because it was too scary for them down there.

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Lightning4

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 04:17:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Spiders Everywhere:
<STRONG>
The bottom level: Hell itself! Don't go down here unless you're really, really, ready, and you're still gonna die. Imagine that this is where the guys in the demon pits originally crawled up from...because it was too scary for them down there.</STRONG>

Size 50 Fire-Breathing Grizzly Elecarppotamusicorns.

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Captain Failmore

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 04:23:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Lightning4:
<STRONG>Fire-Breathing Grizzly Elecarppotamusicorns.</STRONG>

Holy hell, this needs an illustration now.

BRB guys.

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Armok

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Re: More underground features and biomes
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 04:48:00 pm »

Carp demon.
Size 50 levitating [DRAGONFIREBREATH] carp.  :eek:
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