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Author Topic: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)  (Read 11606 times)

Praetyre

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One of the favorite games of my childhood, and still one of the most enduring artistic influences and still-played classics, was the Oddworld platformer/puzzle series. While such a genre would not seem conducive to conversion into the format of a simulation game, if Japanese shoot em up fans can have their shot (no pun intended), why couldn't I?

Preambling aside, while the new anatomy system has proven a big hurdle for me in regards to modding (my Arcanum project is still on hold, for this reason), there are several other factors I would like to know of before embarking on this possible project, all of which weigh heavily on gameplay. The recent success of the Illithid mod has shown the immense capabilities of the new caste system, which, as you will see, has a heavy bearing on gameplay.

The portions of Oddworld seen in the games depict several societies. These are the Magog Cartel, also known as the Industrials, the Mudokons, possibly the nebulous Khanzumerz, the Clakkerz, the Outlaws, the Grubbs and the Steef.

The Magog Cartel is most suitable as a player race due to both their dominant position within the known game world and the wealth of information available on their society. As such...

Magog Cartel Castes:

Glukkons: A race of zoot-suited, armless humanoids whose arms have atrophied due to experiments during the Age of Alchemy (a conflict precipatated by Mudokons claiming racial superiority over the Glukkons due to the presence of a Mudokon handprint formation on one of Oddworld's moons), and who walk on their legs. They have ancestral derivation from tree-dwelling cephalopods. A picture says a thousand words, of course, so:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There you can also see the social structure of Glukkon society illustrated in chart form. Glukkons are effectively the managerial class of Magog society, but incapable of any other work, so they should fit well as nobles physically incapable of any but social tasks. Due to the scale of society which DF currently simulates, the DF-Glukkons social hierarchy would top off well before reaching the highest social statuses.

The Magog Cartel appears to be ruled over by a Queen, with an ant-like reproductive structure, but in accordance with the above structure restriction, the ingame Glukkons would all be [MALE] or [NO_GENDER] (given their sterility) and available only via immigration (since the in-game Magog civilization would be an expansionary outcropping of the Cartel in an uncharted area of the vast, 10-times-Earth-sized Oddworld).

Their use of glasses and fondness for cigars will probably have to wait until future versions that incorporate eyewear and tobacco, especially with the extreme fire hazard such things would present with the present AI.

Sligs: A race of green skinned squid-faced individuals with two thin arms, a tapering tail and two eyes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Most Sligs wear masks of an unknown material (presumably leather or metal), though the roid-raging Big Bro Sligs have been known to wear armour:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sligs are used as guards and enforcers by Glukkons, though one Slig, known only as the Valet, was a Glukkon valet and former host of a sadistic gameshow called Name That Trauma. They possessed a number of castes, all of which save the fliers and the tankers can be represented by the equipment and skill of a Slig: http://oddworldlibrary.net/toe/Sligs#Status

The Air Corps would likely be a seperate caste entirely, with the [FLIER] tag and the ability to drop a limited supply of explosive grenades. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, aerial personal area of effect weaponry is currently unimplementable, so the fliers will have to wait with the tankers, who are obviously impossible to implement until a complex vehicle system is implemented. Big Bros can probably be abstracted by high strength or simply made into a larger and more powerful seperate caste and assumed to be steroided elsewhere. Sligs receive their equipment from dispensers in game, but there's no reason a metal container couldn't do the the same thing.

Sligs are spawned from a Queen (the source of their generally nasty personalities), so yet again an immigrant solution is needed, but this actually makes sense from an in-game context. The fortress/facility in game would be a business or exploratory operation, not a population centre, so reliance on external support would fit.

The most critical issue with Sligs, however, is their dependency on metal pants for effective walking. The new crutch mechanism may be able to shoehorn metal pants into it's reportoire, but I see no way to set a species as being born crippled or to have Slig-only clothing that increases movement speed.

Lastly, Sligs wear masks for two reasons. Firstly, their Glukkon masters view them as ugly. Secondly, their masks protect them from industrial pollutants within the factories they work in. Pollution is currently not implemented (beyond miasma and steam, which can't be blocked by headgear in a gas mask fashion), so the ugliness explanation will have to do. Sligs initially possessed single eyed visors, but in-universe, a switch was made between these and two eyed visors due to workplace accidents caused by the one eyed visors. I don't see any way to have headgear impact vision (especially with the lack of a lighting system and it's ramifications for the game's AI vision system), so a simple difference of description and change from COMMON for the two eyed masks to UNCOMMON for the cyclopean ones will have to do for now.

Mudokons: A race of green and grey skinned, ponytailed humanoids (with two known blue members, both of which possessed magic powers, though green members have also been known to do so) employed and often enslaved for menial labour by the Cartel. With the exception of a masked Shaman, who appears to be their only leadership role, they wear nothing but brown loincloths. Due to an ironic protest by a Japanese activist group, only in their first appearance do they possess 4 fingers, so 3 fingered Mudokons would appear to be canonical. They possess a Queen (seeing a pattern here?). Most of the work of the facility would be performed by them, naturally, and the high death rate of dwarves would fit marvelously in the Oddworld universe.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Within Oddworld, Mudokons were turned into meat after a major decline in profits of the meat congloremate Rupture Farms. The [BUTCHERABLE] tag could sort this out, though I'm not sure if it can be applied to castes.

Vykkers: A grey skinned tripedal, four armed, high voiced, hermaphroditic race of generally extremely sadistic doctors and scientists, whose Vykkers Labs appears to be in partnership or subsidaryship with the Cartel. Their method of reproduction is most likely self fertilization, but until this is implemented, they will have [NO_GENDER].
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While technological development does not currently exist in DF (aside from the nebulous "alchemy", the Vykkers can fit in well as fish/animal dissectors, craftsmen, artists (their needlelike hands and sadism would create good engravings) and most crucially, doctors.

Vykkers have several classes in-game, all of which should easily be implementable (though the snuzis might require special poison ammo): http://oddworldlibrary.net/toe/Vykkers#status

Vykkers typically wear either simple loincloths or armoured suits, though one possessed a monocle and another a top hat and glasses. Aside from the glasses, none of these present any barriers to DF's current clothing system.

Interns: A servant race (though thus far, they have only been seen in service to the Vykkers) with a penchant for listening to music and extreme talkativity, resulting in most of them having their mouths sewn closed by the Vykkers. Their method of reproduction is completely unknown, and they wear swimsuits:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Since sealed mouths (let alone ones deliberately sealed for disciplinary/sociological reasons) are not yet possible in game, I'd probably have them as an immigrant species without the [CAN_SPEAK] tag. They'd be lower level doctors for the most part, hauling around medical materials and making sure the victims patients don't escape die.

The Intern types seen in-game are:
Workers: Wrestlers
Shock Rockers: I don't think electric weapons are in-game yet, so they'd probably just wield a metallic, piercing weapon.
Shooter: Snuzi wielders

With armoured variants, pretty much all well within the game's current equipment boundaries.

Chroniclers: Never seen in game (only in concept art), they appear to be a unipedal, four armed, yellow skinned race with vaguely squidlike features. They fulfill archival and bureaucratic functions in the Cartel, and appear to have high class tastes in clothing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nothing is known about their reproduction, and they are likely a fairly rare species anyway. They would be ideal nobles, especially in admnistrative, non-military roles. I assume that the two sided staff they are wielding is a ceremonial walking stick or abacus.

Moving on to...

Other Races

Mudokons: The basic facts about them have already been noted. Their society is tribal and primitive, with a lot of emphasis on the power of magic. While shamans as anything but their sole noble (aside from a couple of military roles) are not implementable (Oddworld magic consists of telekenesis and bodily possession, which would certainly give a whole new meaning to "Slig McSlig has been possessed!"), they do possess several other roles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Tomahawker's weapon is blunt, naturally, and would fit the role of a club quite well, while the Mudarcher's weapon is actually more akin to a submachine gun, and works on the basis of an energy projectile. Due to the aforementioned issues with the Shock Rocker, simple bolts may have to do for now. An intriguing divergence in hair can be noticed in the Native Mudokon, no doubt codable in the appearance sections of their raws.

As a sidenote, because I have no plans thus far for a flora section, Mudokons appear to be able to boost their psychic energies with a plant called Spooce, which is grown by their magic chants and doesn't appear to possess any other properties.

Clakkerz: A race of hillbilly, chicken-like humanoids with a technological level and society modeled after the Wild West. They wear dresses and overalls, and have small, DF-sized towns typically situated in deserts and river areas. They could make good consumers for the Cartel's various goods, and rivals for the Outlaws. One presumes their reproduction is either like that of chickens or of humans. Either way, they need no gender tags.

WARNING: EFFING HUGE IMAGE
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Outlaws: A race of petty criminals with bodies that resemble a cross between a warthog and a toad, and come in varying sizes (the larger sizes indicating greater authority, much like Orks). They would probably be the closest thing to Goblins in OF, and have little other interaction other than frequent wars with the Clakkerz. They have large litters and presumably reproduce like humans.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Grubbs: A race of small, toad-lizard-ish creatures who can best be described as Oddworld's version of Gobbo's interpretation of Kobolds, though with no apparent penchant for theft. They are farmers, foragers, fishermen and simple hunters, with architecture resembling that of Native and Meso American cultures. Their military seems to consist principally of pikemen, and they possess a queen, as seen in this shot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Their reproduction is unknown, so it's probably best to follow the same line as the Clakkerz.

Steef: A race of centaur-like beings commonly regarded as mere, extinct beasts, but are actually strong, intelligent beings. They appeared to have a protective relationship with the Grubbs, so perhaps they could fit as a rare caste, and be regarded as [FANCIFUL] by other races. Their reproduction is unknown, so ibid Clakkerz.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are three other intelligent races who do not seem like material for civilizations in their own right, but still may be of interest for implementation in some other form:

Wolvark: A race of trolllike mechanics and enforcers seen in game working for the Oktigi dam-owner Sekto. They appear to be of foul temperament, and wear overalls, with similar redneck cultural tastes as the Clakkerz.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oktigi: A race of parasitic, intelligent beings belonging to the same evolutionary line as the Gloktigi and Glukkons. Like their cousins in the Cartel, they seem to be greedy and avaricious, though it is difficult to determine much about a species with only one known member. They can possess a being in a manner akin to that of the headcrabs from Half Life, but until a system for possession is implemented, they will have to wait in the wings along with Mudokon magics.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elderling: A race of enormous, purple, vaguely ovoid creatures with enormous yellow eyes. The only known specimen, the Almighty Raisin, was a millenium old, narcoleptic yet highly regarded by the Mudokons, and possessed some sort of psychic link to the Ratz, allowing him to see what they saw. They would be long lived, intelligent and benign semimegabeasts, most likely.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gabbits: A race of rare, intelligent amphibious unipeds hunted near extinction by the Cartel for their eggs, known as the prized cuisine Gabbiar. They are rather awkward out of water, hopping about noisily on their flippered leg. Their reproduction is presumably like that of fish. When eggs are implementable, they will most likely be.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, onto Oddworld's...

Fauna

Bats: One of the two Earth species appearing as minor enemies in the first game, they may appear to fit as vermin but given their capacity to quickly kill Mudokons, I suspect they should function as standard fliers.

Bees: Much like bats in most respects. They seem to be much smaller, however, and should probably be represented as swarms to do any tangible damage to their targets.

Bolamite: An arachnid with webs powerful enough to tie up Outlaws, used as a weapon in Strangers Wrath. Seem as big as tarantulas, but otherwise could replace cave spiders quite well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Boombat: A small, exploding creature that resembles a cross between a bat and a fuzzle. They seem to have sticky quills, though their explosion mechanic may make them difficult to implement at present.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Birds: Small, strange brown birds fly in circles for usage by Mudokon magic users for teleportation and, in the protagonist Abe's case, the powering up of the Shrykull power. They will have to wait for the magic arc, but owllike noises can be heard in the backgrounds of several levels in Abe's Exoddus, perhaps granting them another role.

Chippunkz: A small, annoying chipmunk like creature with the ability to speak.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elums: A race of aloof, bipedal, vaguely horselike creatures with a fondness for honey only outmatched by their hatred for bees. They would probably replace horses.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fireflies: The only difference they appear to possess from their Earth counterparts is a blue colour (though that may be a product of moonlight) and that Mudokon chants led them to form words that gave hints as to the path ahead. That utility is useless without magic, so they'd be harmless vermin for now.

Fleeches: A race of leechlike, vicious creatures who were originally created by Vykkers for sale to young Glukkons, but flushed down the toilet when they grew too large, and ended up living in the jungles of Oddworld. They are also used as guards by some industrial facilities, and war with the native Paramites and Scrabs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fuzzles: A race of semiintelligent, furry ball-shaped creatures with razor sharp teeth. They are often used for pharmaceutical testing by Vykkers, and would thus be bringable on embark.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gloktigi: A very powerful race of beasts in the same Octigi family as the Glukkons and Oktigi.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note that the Gloktigi in the image above has been cybernetically enhanced. A natural, though sketch, version can be seen earlier under the Oktigi's entry.

Kinto: A strange race of mountain dwelling tripeds whom the Glukkons made an unsucessful attempt at enslaving to carry their Queen. Nothing beyond their physiology and paranoia for anything about their head is known about them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lusk: Beasts with a relationship to Outlaws. Nothing else is known about them.

Meech: A race of supposedly hunted-to-extinction pack animals known for hunting Elum in the savannahs surrounding Rupture Farms. They were considered a delicacy by Industrials due to their rarity. Their backs had red stripes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meetles/Mugz: A race which starts off in a larval form and, depending on whether they have a herbivorous or carnivorous diet, evolve either into the peaceful Meetles or the aggressive Mugs, which are used as guards by the Cartel. Meetles and Mugs would likely be implementable as seperate caste's, though their unique dietary maturation system is probably not currently feasible.

Meetles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mugs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meep: Cyclopean, unipedal creatures that serve as Oddworld's equivalent of sheep.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mudflub: Creatures that live at the bottom of rivers used to make oil by the Magog Cartel. Nothing else is known of them.

Paramite: A race of yellow, eyeless, hand-faced quadrupeds that, along with Scrabs, are used as guardian creatures for Mudokon sites and tombs. Their reproductive method is unknown, and they can create webs to aid in descent and ascent. They are distressed and immobilized by Mudokon chanting. They are hunted by the Industrials to make Paramite Pies, and live in packs numbering from a few to dozens of Paramites.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ratz: Small, rodentine, grey, green eyed creatures which act as the eyes of the Almighty Raisin outside his cave, infiltrating and spying on Industrial facilities.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scootz/Worry Fish: Tiny blue fish used as food by the Grubbs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scrabs: Large quadrupeds with no arms and a long, beaked head. They, along with Paramites, serve as guardian creatures to Mudokon sites, and are distressed and immobilized by Mudokon chants. They are hunted by the Industrials for usage in Scrab Cakes, and while aggressive in isolated environments, they are capable of organizing themselves into great herds.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sea Rexes: Massive, eel-like creatures that dwell in Oddworld's oceans. They would fit well as sea semimegabeasts.

Skeeters: A large, flying, mosquitolike insect capable of sucking out the brains of many humanoids.

Slegs: A purple, sewer dwelling, tusked and antennaed version of Slogs. They also menace river banks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Slogs: A red, vicious, doglike race of eyeless bipeds used by the Cartel as guards and Slig pets. Their offspring are known as sloggies.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Slurgs: Tiny, jungle dwelling molluscs that live off Fleech offal. They would most likely be purple-coloured vermin.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sniper Wasps: Small, sharp peaked wasplike creatures that can do serious damage to the leather armour of Outlaws.

Stangs: Aquatic creatures resembling a cross between a shark and a jellyfish.

Stingbees: Larger and more aggressive versions of bees found in desert areas, which possess more powerful stings and can prove great distraction to an enemy in combat.

Stunkz: Skunklike creatures which release a gas powerful enough to render most Outlaws completely occupied with vomiting for 10 seconds.

Thudslugs/Riot Slugs: Small, shelled arthropods which can retreat into their shell when startled, and pack a great punch as projectile weapons in this state. Riot Slugs possess a 24 hour lifespan, red shells and explode in mid air. The lifespan would probably have to be lengthened out to 1 year due to the current limits of the MAXAGE tag, but in any case, the fact they explode at the end of their life and in mid air presents a far bigger obstacle (especially with the new body system screwing up SEVERONBREAK), so only Thudslugs seem implementable at present (not sure about their retreat ability, though)/

Thudslug
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Riot Slug
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Zappflies: Small insects resembling dragonflies which can be electrically charged to make them potent projectile weapons. Such a mechanic will have to wait until someone comes up with electricity, so for now, they'll just be regular hard shelled desert critters.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:24:35 am by Praetyre »
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AtomicPaperclip

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Re: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 02:50:16 pm »

That would take a tremendous amount of mod time.

It would be fun to play such a huge TC mod though
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ProZocK

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Re: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 06:25:54 pm »

Man... I  miss Oddworld so much.
This would be a great mod my friend, I would happily play it. Get some pointers from D_E, like you said, he did a great job on the castes of the Illithid mod.
I better start learning how to properly mod as well, that's a good vacation plan.
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UNDEAD ELEPHANTS.HERDS OF THEM.EVEN IN DEATH I STILL GRAZE.

Praetyre

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Re: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 01:37:28 am »

While learning the new body system and writing out the raws for around 46 creatures and 5 entities may take some time, I'm more interested in the issues which revolve around obstacles, rather than high time investment. Namely:
  • The ability to only allow particular castes to do particular jobs: I.E. no Mudokon surgeons, Chronicler janitors, Glukkon haulers (to avoid a constant stream of Glurist McGlukkon cancels haul item: No hands) etc.
  • The ability to make Sligs dependent on metal pants for walking. I can see metal pants being set on the tail or lower body as a common, armoured garment, but I don't see any way to set a garment to give a large speed boost to a creature, nor to effectively have a garment that gives a creature artificial "legs". Another way to get legs in might be setting Sligs lower bodies and legs as made of different materials, but I'm not sure if that's possible at present, and you'd run into weird issues where a Slig is severely injured simply by being knocked out of the "pants". Yet another would be a heavily modified version of detachable shells, but I've not seen that done with any creature thus far.
Those are the most critical issues, at present. Others can be sidestepped and put on hold, but even an alpha version would require these basic fundamentals of Industrial society.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 01:41:20 am by Praetyre »
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Shaostoul

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Re: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 02:22:50 am »

Either way best of luck. I've played two of the oddworlds, never beat though. Would love to play em again.
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I mod games and educate others how to do so as well, if you'd like to learn join my Discord and you can join a bunch of like minded individuals. (Presently modding Space Engineers and No Man's Sky.)

Looking into modding DF? This forum guide & wiki guide may still be a good start!

NRN_R_Sumo1

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Re: Rough Concept: Oddworld Fortress (WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IMAGE HEAVY)
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 03:26:35 am »

While learning the new body system and writing out the raws for around 46 creatures and 5 entities may take some time, I'm more interested in the issues which revolve around obstacles, rather than high time investment. Namely:
  • The ability to only allow particular castes to do particular jobs: I.E. no Mudokon surgeons, Chronicler janitors, Glukkon haulers (to avoid a constant stream of Glurist McGlukkon cancels haul item: No hands) etc.
  • The ability to make Sligs dependent on metal pants for walking. I can see metal pants being set on the tail or lower body as a common, armoured garment, but I don't see any way to set a garment to give a large speed boost to a creature, nor to effectively have a garment that gives a creature artificial "legs". Another way to get legs in might be setting Sligs lower bodies and legs as made of different materials, but I'm not sure if that's possible at present, and you'd run into weird issues where a Slig is severely injured simply by being knocked out of the "pants". Yet another would be a heavily modified version of detachable shells, but I've not seen that done with any creature thus far.
Those are the most critical issues, at present. Others can be sidestepped and put on hold, but even an alpha version would require these basic fundamentals of Industrial society.

Crutches might work for prostetic legs I suppose.
just need to make fake legs on them that couldnt hold their whole weight I guess, and it should snap. (I'm basing this off a guess but it might be worth a shot to do it)
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