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Author Topic: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs  (Read 1237 times)

madk

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Too many typical forest animals are considered exotic pets by default. This is not something I enjoy.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 09:24:23 pm »

This is new, it wasn't like this in the last version.

I haven't read anything straight from Toady about it, but I assume it was done to make it so that you couldn't train a wild grizzly bear as easily as you could train your typical dog.

... of course, that said, it does seem a little on the extreme side, since it's basically set so that nothing that isn't domestic livestock that you probably only encounter tamed is going to be exotic, making all tamers except for the DM rather useless.

Ultimately, you could just use a simple search-and-replace feature on a word editing program to change every animal you want into a non-exotic pet animal if your DM is too buggy for you to make good use of him/her.
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Misterstone

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 09:40:02 pm »

Well if there was a gradation in training difficulty from "aww cute little kitty" to "GAH ITS GOT MY ARM" that would be best probably.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 12:21:27 am »

I think they should rip exotic pet thing and dungeon masters from the game and replace the exotic pets with a how hard to tame-o-metre from 1 to 5 and that way as long as you have a dwarf with animal trainer you can tame things that used to be exotic.[wait i said that wrong what i mean is there should be no exotic tag just a how hard to tame tag]
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 12:27:33 am by Dwarf mc dwarf »
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snelg

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 03:33:05 am »

It would be nice if the skill of the trainer decided what could be tamed and not. The DM could arrive with a lot of skill in animal training to make that one way to reach a pretty good level (and ability to train a lot of the wild animals, keeping him useful), or you can train your own animal trainers from scratch or whatever. Though I'm not sure how many animals would need to be trained to reach whatever skill needed.
Maybe tame animals young ones would need some kind of training as well to give the animal trainer something to do and increase their skill? Although with the amount of dogs -> war dogs usually appearing I guess that might not be needed. :D

Would be interesting to see animal trainer as something you could actually want to pick on embark, to be able to train your dogs into war dogs early on.
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Rowanas

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 03:42:27 am »

I like the method
that snelg is mentioning now
it makes sense to me
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

culwin

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 05:02:42 am »

Different animals should require a different skill level from the trainer.
Dabbling trainers couldn't train much more than a puppy or a kitty.
It should also be easier to train a young/baby creature than a fully grown adult creature.
Keeping exotic is fine, but common wildlife isn't exotic.
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snelg

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 07:27:00 am »

Different animals should require a different skill level from the trainer.
Dabbling trainers couldn't train much more than a puppy or a kitty.
It should also be easier to train a young/baby creature than a fully grown adult creature.
Keeping exotic is fine, but common wildlife isn't exotic.
I'm not sure whether being exotic alone should make an animal harder to tame. Maybe there could be something like a difficulty level set in the raws for the different animals. It would also be nice if personalities of the animals would play a part here as well. Like that particularly irritated horse that likes no one and tries to bite or trample the trainer (milder injuries for the hospital to take care of?).  :D
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When there's no more room in the fortress, the cats will walk the earth.
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Pilsu

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 11:19:00 am »

It'd be nice if you had to start with a cub to tame a wild animal. The current method seems a bit too easy. Quality levels for training would also be nice. A masterfully trained warhorse should be quite valuable. It'd be a plus if the process wasn't as quick as it is now.

It should take some skill or perhaps knowledge to train an animal for war. It's not something for dabblers.
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Rowanas

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2010, 11:57:33 am »

Pilsu doesn't want
to train any animals,
there's not enough time

How would you suggest
we get any training done
if it takes longer?
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Pilsu

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 01:05:20 pm »

Training takes little time as is. In addition, training is a binary matter. It never rusts and cannot be overridden or added to. Why not use the new teaching mechanic instead? Say, a Competent Animal Trainer could train a dog up to Competent in any relevant skill such as biting or sneaking. This would do away with the arbitrary distinctions between different types of trained animals. No more 2x damage boost for war dogs, instead the training would provide them with some muscle and better skills in various maneuvers. For herbivores, there'd be a skill for maintaining their cool. Such a beast would periodically roll a check against it's instincts when in battle to determine whether it panics and tries to flee or whatnot.

More intelligent animals would learn faster and their skills would rust slower. Every dog should have a cap on their stats based on genetics, avoiding even the litter runts being musclebound beasts with a little mannequin biting.


Mind you, I'd prefer if dog skills were simplified (along with simple dwarf skills but I digress):
  • Dabbling
  • Novice
  • Competent
  • Skilled
  • Adept
  • Master
Trainer's own skill would determine how well an animal can be trained. Every time an animal is assigned to be trained, the trainer's skill roll determines whether it can be trained further. Basically, let's take a dog that's an Adept Ambusher. An Accomplished trainer tries to train him further. He has say, 25% chance of success. If he wins the roll, the animal learns during the session, increasing it's skill towards Master. If he fails, the dog merely recovers from skill rusting. While this calls for some way of preventing trainers from wasting their time with animals they can't handle well yet, it'd make training take longer without having to be finished in one session and allows for further training if someone more skilled turns up later.

Trainer skill would have diminishing returns. While he would quickly learn to reliably train animals up to Competent, Skilled and beyond would be harder to reach. Animal's own traits would also come into play. Exotic (high difficulty rating) animals would require high trainer skill to make any progress with but once the threshold is reached, it'd go smoothly. Taming requiring some skill would also be preferable. Animals still in the child stage could have the modifier cut in half, making them much easier to handle. Or, just a different modifier for the different stages. Preferable, as it allows for adults to be unable to ever be truly tamed if so desired. Whatever works I guess.


A pretty crude draft but I think you get the idea.
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Rowanas

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 04:09:09 pm »

Less hard than I thought
But we will need so many
animal trainers

On another note
writing haiku is quite hard
with chilli in eye.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

alamoes

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2010, 04:50:19 pm »

I've mentioned it once in another topic, but if we had sub-skills like combat animal trainer that would help out the training process that would solve specialized training. 
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Calvin

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 04:55:56 pm »

Less hard than I thought
But we will need so many
animal trainers

On another note
writing haiku is quite hard
with chilli in eye.

I was about to
Ask why your posts are haikus.
Took me a while.
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Rowanas

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Re: Wildlife shouldn't all be exotic, especially with bugged DMs
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 05:05:39 pm »

Less hard than I thought
But we will need so many
animal trainers

On another note
writing haiku is quite hard
with chilli in eye.

I was about to
Ask why your posts are haikus.
Took me a while.

The last line is close,
Only 4 syllables though.
Haiku is plural
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.
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