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[Itnetlolor]

I like the interface as well. It makes it feel more like a classic DOS game, and if I need a quicker way of micromanaging, there's always a 3rd-party program someone has developed to make things a tad easier to deal with. For starters, Dwarf Therapist is, by far, one of the programs I use the most.

Bloodfist would've taken forever if I didn't have that little program helping me out.

[Tilla]

Maybe there needs to be a FAQ, and question 1 can be 'what's with the interface' so we can finally cram it through people's skulls why interface is not a feature to implement at this stage of development.

[orbcontrolled]

Divided between what? A working interface and ... ?

I actually love the interface. After you get used to it, it's actually pretty flowing.

I like the interface as well.

:shrug:   _{(This forum needs a total smiley-face overhaul!)}

============

Maybe there needs to be a FAQ, and question 1 can be 'what's with the interface' so we can finally cram it through people's skulls why interface is not a feature to implement at this stage of development.

I can't find the quote right now, but page 1 of the Interface Overhaul thread should include that quote someone made a while ago about how important it is to start developing the interface early on in a project, and making it grow with the game and such. Anybody have that quote?

[IronyOwl]

The linked example looks neat and all, but I'm not convinced it's faster or more convenient in any way (other than mouseover tooltips). There's a reason people use hotkeys in games with full mouse support.

[MrWiggles]

With the EST, UI is not up in the top ten. Its among the dozens of dozen of other features that people want in, want improved ect. Maybe EST gets restarted it'll breach the top ten.

But yea, OH NOES SOMEONE WHO CONCENTRATED ON THE UI MADE A DIFFERENT UI WITH SEEMINGLY BETTER FUCNTIONALITY! EGADS, DID NOT ANYONE KNOW THIS COULD BE DONE! FOR I WAS A BLIND MAN, AND NOW I CAN SEE!

[Footkerchief]

interface is not a feature to implement at this stage of development.

Uh, not even Toady believes that.

The linked example looks neat and all, but I'm not convinced it's faster or more convenient in any way (other than mouseover tooltips). There's a reason people use hotkeys in games with full mouse support.

Hotkeys are great.  They're not a substitute for moving a cursor, though.

With the EST, UI is not up in the top ten. Its among the dozens of dozen of other features that people want in, want improved ect. Maybe EST gets restarted it'll breach the top ten.

2. (824)     Standing production orders
...so you never run out of booze. Such as: Produce BOOZE if(PLANTS > 100 && DRINK < 100)

4. (655)     Workshop Material Selection
At least as much as the 2D version had where you could order Black Stone Doors instead of just rock doors. Idea wishes to be able to select granite differently than gabbro, but based on color is good enough for most folks.

5. (467)     Full graphics support
Full graphics support.

7. (391)     Auto-mining
Ability to mark discovered vein types to be auto-mined. Ability to set a minimum miner skill to mine said vein, so that only the legendary miners mine the most valuable veins and thus produce more ore. These miners qualified to mine a said designated vein should have it as their first priority when it comes to mining, so that the work will get done. Miners will be able to empty a vein by themselves without us manually telling them to dig deeper and deeper, also mining unimportant rock by mistake. Will keep miners from wandering off until the job is done. Can be integrated just like how we can forbid types of rock to be used in crafting. Also requesting auto-woodcutting, plant gathering etc, but it's less of an issue.

8. (366)     Job Priorities
Suggester    Toggle priorities for jobs either globally or per dwarf.

You think none of these are UI?

[MrWiggles]

They, but not the in context of UI used by the OP.

[Footkerchief]

They, but not the in context of UI used by the OP.

Yes, the specific interface features showcased in the video aren't explicitly covered by the top 10 ESV items.  Fixing the military menu isn't in the top 10 either.  What's your point?

[jvempire]

Maybe there needs to be a FAQ, and question 1 can be 'what's with the interface' so we can finally cram it through people's skulls why interface is not a feature to implement at this stage of development.

And I wholesomely disagree. Toady is at the stage of development of making Dwarf Fortress a playable copy. Of course Toady still has many things he wants to add into the game, but being honest no one knows when that will be. But a better interface isn't that hard to add and would actually be beneficial when adding new features, because instead of adding it to a broken one, your adding it to one that works. And yet again people saying that they don't get the new military screen are just showcasing that point. The new military screen is terrible just like the rest, but because the military screen doesn't have a bunch of tutorials explaining how to use it, it's seen as being the worst part. When we first saw it on .31.01's release no one understood it, but I'm guessing in a couple of months when people have explained it enough with videos and such, aka when people actually get it, it will seem easy. It's just that, an interface shouldn't take that amount of time and effort to understand. A 3rd party shouldn't be required to jump into a game. That's why an easier to understand interface/UI is essential and not a "throw-away bottom of the list" feature.

[jeffb]

Seems like people aren't really opposing a new UI rather trying to keep DF as obscure and elitist as possible. If Toady goes down that path his project will never get finished.

Might also explain the bitterness towards SA...

[Footkerchief]

Seems like people aren't really opposing a new UI rather trying to keep DF as obscure and elitist as possible. If Toady goes down that path his project will never get finished.

Might also explain the bitterness towards SA...

I don't think anyone's bitter toward SA for helping to popularize DF, if that's what you mean.

[Krelos]

Spoiler: You may be offended if you like the current "UI" (click to show/hide)

trying to keep DF as obscure and elitist as possible

We have a winner.

newguy: DF needs a more intuitive interface
dfvet: If you cant figure out how to play the game you're just an idiot
dfvet: I'm smarter than you are because I can do this really hard thing
newguy: Actually no. I can do it too just fine, but it would be more fun if it was easier
dfvet: No you're just some stupid lazy newfag who cant figure out the game

The only reason to object to the game becoming easier to use is if you are an elitist snob afraid of losing their pathetic sense of superiority.
There should be no discussion of IF the UI should be improved, only of HOW it should be improved. To object to it's improvement is just plain idiocy.

That's just the way I feel about it.

[Cruxador]

Maybe there needs to be a FAQ, and question 1 can be 'what's with the interface' so we can finally cram it through people's skulls why interface is not a feature to implement at this stage of development.

And I wholesomely disagree. Toady is at the stage of development of making Dwarf Fortress a playable copy. Of course Toady still has many things he wants to add into the game, but being honest no one knows when that will be. But a better interface isn't that hard to add and would actually be beneficial when adding new features, because instead of adding it to a broken one, your adding it to one that works. And yet again people saying that they don't get the new military screen are just showcasing that point. The new military screen is terrible just like the rest, but because the military screen doesn't have a bunch of tutorials explaining how to use it, it's seen as being the worst part. When we first saw it on .31.01's release no one understood it, but I'm guessing in a couple of months when people have explained it enough with videos and such, aka when people actually get it, it will seem easy. It's just that, an interface shouldn't take that amount of time and effort to understand. A 3rd party shouldn't be required to jump into a game. That's why an easier to understand interface/UI is essential and not a "throw-away bottom of the list" feature.

Well if we're talking about "stages of development" then let's think a bit. Currently, Toady fixes bugs. When bugs are reduced to an acceptable level, we have the Top Ten, Adventure Mode, and Sieges. That will be several releases, but that stuff plus related bug fixing will likely not be less than a year. Interface may come directly after that. If nothing else comes up, that's probably when it will be.

Spoiler: You may be offended if you like the current "UI" (click to show/hide)

trying to keep DF as obscure and elitist as possible

We have a winner.

newguy: DF needs a more intuitive interface
dfvet: If you cant figure out how to play the game you're just an idiot
dfvet: I'm smarter than you are because I can do this really hard thing
newguy: Actually no. I can do it too just fine, but it would be more fun if it was easier
dfvet: No you're just some stupid lazy newfag who cant figure out the game

The only reason to object to the game becoming easier to use is if you are an elitist snob afraid of losing their pathetic sense of superiority.
There should be no discussion of IF the UI should be improved, only of HOW it should be improved. To object to it's improvement is just plain idiocy.

That's just the way I feel about it.

This is bullshit. The current UI is acceptable, because it works. Other UIs are not inherently unacceptable, but the current keyboard shortcuts are, for those that know them, the fastest and easiest way to do things. From that perspective, much of the proposed UI "fixes" merely waste screenspace. Helping new guys get into the game is important, of course, but that doesn't mean that all aspects of the current UI should be thrown away unnecessarily.

[jeffb]

This is bullshit. The current UI is acceptable, because it works. Other UIs are not inherently unacceptable, but the current keyboard shortcuts are, for those that know them, the fastest and easiest way to do things. From that perspective, much of the proposed UI "fixes" merely waste screenspace. Helping new guys get into the game is important, of course, but that doesn't mean that all aspects of the current UI should be thrown away unnecessarily.

You're acting as if keyboard shortcuts and a mouse interface are mutually exclusive and doing nothing more than proving his point.

[Krelos]

that doesn't mean that all aspects of the current UI should be thrown away unnecessarily.

I think you'll find that I didn't come close to even implying that.

the current keyboard shortcuts are, for those that know them, the fastest and easiest way to do things

My fingers fly over the DF interface as fast as anyone's and I know almost all of the shortcuts by heart. Most of the time when I'm playing I type shortcut letters as fast as if I was talking in chat. Sometimes I have to pause and wait for the game to catch up.
I know with 100% certainty that it can be easier, faster and better in every way than it is right now.

There is no good reason, none whatsoever, to object to the UI becoming easier to use.

I'm pretty sure Toady is big and tough enough to do it when he wants to and not before, so if that's what your objection is, well fine but it's not really needed.
What pisses me off is when I see people displaying the attitude I parodied in my other post. And I have seen it numerous times. I've seen it in this thread.