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[JanusTwoface]

The strongest evidence that we have of a Cult is Org's word.  I personally don't believe that Org would reveal the existence of a Cult if he were actually in the Cult.  I just don't think that's his style.  Do you disagree?

I'm not sure about the Devil being the Cult Leader.  If there is a Cult which summons Demons rather than indoctrinate Cultist (which does sound reasonable), I don't think that it'd be lead by a Devil, it just feels wrong.

Finally, your feeling of what happened is extremely detailed, perhaps overly so.  Are you perhaps said Cult Leader trying to convince us that you don't actually exist?  At this point, I don't think so, but the level of detail is worrisome.

Still waiting on posts from NUKE9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Lonewolf I, Rysith.  Not terribly worried as it hasn't even been that long yet, but lurking is unpleasant.

[Mr.Person]

Another moron who won't even try and give a reason for "deflection" being scummy.

You got me thinking, so I went to mafiascum.net's wiki which was singularly unhelpful on the subject of deflection.  Deflection to me means shifting the attention away from yourself without attempting to counter the points against you.  Defending yourself is not generally scummy (except when taken too far), but deflection is. 

Do you agree that is scummy behavior?  If not, do you at least agree with the definition?

That I can agree with 100%. Some people seem to think that pointing out scummy actions of other players is automatically deflection. Everyone take note of this.

All the lynch targets at the time were neutral. Everyone's neutral except the scum picks. Rather than say something useless like "I dunno about Ottofar", instead I attacked the player I actually wanted lynched, which in this case was Nuke. RedWarrior's still on the map, by the way, but Nuke doesn't seem to care at all.

Could you explain what you mean by the first two sentences?  Because I don't particlarly see anyone as being neutral in a Mafia game, everyone has some goal and is either pro-town or anti-town, if weakly in some third party cases (no idea if we have those in this game).

And what do you mean by scum picks?

Do you think that holding your ground and maintaining your vote at the end of the day was useful than even though it would have no effect on the lynch?

I've long since stopped bothering to try and find the townies. It's a waste of time. Nowadays, I ask myself "Scummy?". If not, then I ignore them. I'm not trying to find townies, I'm trying to find scum.

Scum picks, you know, my picks for scum.

Moving my vote to somebody with more votes JUST because they have more votes is what scum does. That's called bandwagoning. Now, if there was a tie to break, it would be another story. But there wasn't. So I held on to my vote for RedWarrior/vote for Nuke, no matter who everyone else is voting. I did this because they've both done very scummy things. Admittedly, I swapped to Nuke partially in the hope that he'd get more traction for a lynch than RedWarrior did, but they're both pretty damn scummy.

The strongest evidence that we have of a Cult is Org's word.  I personally don't believe that Org would reveal the existence of a Cult if he were actually in the Cult.  I just don't think that's his style.  Do you disagree?

I'm not sure about the Devil being the Cult Leader.  If there is a Cult which summons Demons rather than indoctrinate Cultist (which does sound reasonable), I don't think that it'd be lead by a Devil, it just feels wrong.

Finally, your feeling of what happened is extremely detailed, perhaps overly so.  Are you perhaps said Cult Leader trying to convince us that you don't actually exist?  At this point, I don't think so, but the level of detail is worrisome.

Still waiting on posts from NUKE9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Lonewolf I, Rysith.  Not terribly worried as it hasn't even been that long yet, but lurking is unpleasant.

Ignore Org. Everything he's said is textbook WIFOM. Just based on two dead scum, I'm going to go ahead and say a cult is highly improbable. It's also not important, there's likely only 1 or 2 scum left.

[Solifuge]

Finally, your feeling of what happened is extremely detailed, perhaps overly so.  Are you perhaps said Cult Leader trying to convince us that you don't actually exist?  At this point, I don't think so, but the level of detail is worrisome.

A very reasonable response. The level of detail is me trying to work out all the "whys" of a hypothesis to make sure there aren't obvious flaws, before offering it for consideration. I've got nothing anyone else doesn't have to substantiate it with; it's been posted for individual consideration, to compare to the facts you yourself know. A way of sharing information and theory without forcing people to reveal any information about their role.

Ignore Org. Everything he's said is textbook WIFOM. Just based on two dead scum, I'm going to go ahead and say a cult is highly improbable. It's also not important, there's likely only 1 or 2 scum left.

I'm trying to figure out why Claws are what killed Org, if he was a Demon. Maybe Meph took a page from D&D, and Devils and Demons are separate warring scumteams?

[Toaster]

It's hard to not write a non-spoily bah post here, so I'll just say Meph writes excellent flavor.  Bravo!

[ToonyMan]

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

They probably can choose between killing and converting or something.

So Janus and Mr.Person are more suspicious in my book, no?  Time to wait for NUKE I suppose.

[NUKE9.13]

Reminder: I am a filthy European.

So. Interesting stuff. Demons and devils. Three night kills total.
Demons probably don't kill with blasts of magic, and they probably don't kill each other, but they probably do kill. So it seems pretty likely that a demon killed leafsnail.
Devils do not have claws, or a particularly large mouth- so it seems unlikely that a devil killed org. But unless we have some 'converted monster' monster hunter, we can assume that org was killed by yet another scum character- a vampire or werewolf would fit the description.
It is suggested that toaster just is a devil, whilst org was made into a demon, by means of possession. So, as solifuge suggested, they could well be a cult-like entity together; recruiter devil, demon cultists.
Conversions and nightkills are simultaneous. So, the fact that toaster died does not mean he didn't convert someone- and, unless we have a magical vigilante running around (unlikely), the person he converted was (past tense) a paranoid war... sorcerer.

So. I think that we are looking for two more scum: A monstrous SK, with claws and a gaping jaw, and a demon, formerly a revenge killer type figure.
What happened tonight was: Org killed leafsnail, the SK killed org, toaster converted the sorcerer, and the sorcerer with his last (human) breath cast a spell at toaster which killed him.

Moving on!

my more recent attack of Nuke.

Which appears to be based on the fact that I... accurately pointed out the scummy behaviour of what would appear to be the cult recruiter?
Even if toaster was still alive, I would still stand by my accusation of him. He polarised his behaviour without a word- he was hoping that the sudden switch in behaviour would go unnoticed. That is scummy.

Greetings NUKE, I'm finding you suspicious after Ottofar's death and posting habits.

Ottofar was scummy. I assumed that after having played one or two mafia games that he would have learnt how to play town, and that his scumminess was actually due to inexperience playing scum. Serves me right for being an optimist, I guess.

JanusTwoFace: I said it yesterday. I maintain it today. Your posts consist mainly of facts and analysis. They are large and many, but lack flair. You feel like scum.

[Rysith]

Rysith, welcome.  What is your opinion on both the end of the day (pre-lynch results) yesterday and with what we've seen up until now?

Day one, having read through it casually, generated suspicion on you, for overleading (which you're doing again), Mr.Person and Nuke for being extremely abrasive and angry (generally a sign of nervousness and from there to scum), Toonyman (who is reading as "off", though I haven't found something to point at in particular yet), and Redwarrior0 (primarily for [1], which is textbook buddying).

With what happened during the night and into today: We know that there are multiple scumgroups about (Demons, Devils, something that likes killing them), so active scumhunting becomes less of a town tell. If I had to guess, Org was scumkilled and then Toaster killed Leafsnail the PWV-equivalent.

Org being a demon makes it seem like he was just trying to spread general confusion about with his cult claims yesterday. That he was killed seems null, since either there is a cult and wanted to silence him or there isn't a cult and the scum wanted to kill Org to promote paranoia. Or someone just doesn't want to deal with trying to read Org.

And generally today, it seems like things are developing along the same lines as they were yesterday, which is interesting only in that it seems like many people's opinions weren't changed by the events of the night.

[1]

Toony... I'll buy it.  Unvote Toonyman.  Calling it a joke's weak, but I can put my vote to better use for now.

And he gives up on the attack. Don't mess with the Tooninator.

[Mr.Person]

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

They probably can choose between killing and converting or something.

So Janus and Mr.Person are more suspicious in my book, no?  Time to wait for NUKE I suppose.

Didn't even look at the kill flavor, actually. Still, it could just be a vampire that feeds, no conversions. That wouldn't shock me in any way. You know what, it doesn't even matter. There's either a cult or no cult. What would any of you do differently if we all knew for a fact there was a cult? What would you do differently if you knew there wasn't a cult?

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
JanusTwoFace: NUKE9.13
Mr.Person: JanusTwoFace
NUKE9.13: Mr.Person, ToonyMan
ToonyMan: Solifuge


Day 2 ends ~5pm Pacific Thursday

[RedWarrior0]

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

Many times, the vampire doesn't mutilate the victim, AFAIK.

[JanusTwoface]

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

Because of the large chunk missing?  If it's a Vampire from traditional literature, I doubt it.  They tend to be neater.  It's unhelpful if your prey bleeds out and dies before you finish eating.  Why do you still think there is a Cult?  We've already found 2 scum (I guess one could be at least one could be third party), and I doubt there was more than 3 to begin with.

JanusTwoFace: I said it yesterday. I maintain it today. Your posts consist mainly of facts and analysis. They are large and many, but lack flair. You feel like scum.

Do you realize that you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of?  The first half of your most recent post analyzes the flavor text (which has already been done) and the second half is almost defense and mostly comments.  So what are you doing differently than I that makes me scum and you not?

Didn't even look at the kill flavor, actually. Still, it could just be a vampire that feeds, no conversions. That wouldn't shock me in any way. You know what, it doesn't even matter. There's either a cult or no cult. What would any of you do differently if we all knew for a fact there was a cult? What would you do differently if you knew there wasn't a cult?

If there's a Cult than we need to look for changes in behavior rather than people that are scummy throughout the game.  For example a new Cultist backing down on a previous attack (because they were right and had found the Cult Leader).

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

Many times, the vampire doesn't mutilate the victim, AFAIK.

You continue to comment vaguely and minimally on the game without actually contributing.  unvote and vote RedWarrior0.  I'm still unsure about Mr.Person, but you look really scummy right now.

[RedWarrior0]

A little bit of thought means that your first comment more or less repeated what I said. A vampire wouldn't mutilate the victim.

Anyways, I'm going to give my knowledge, rather than thoughts.

A shadowy figure offered me power (a one-shot ability) for a small price(my soul), so I took the power(I chose a night-kill) and killed Toaster with it. He was the one who gave me my power.

[JanusTwoface]

A little bit of thought means that your first comment more or less repeated what I said. A vampire wouldn't mutilate the victim.

Anyways, I'm going to give my knowledge, rather than thoughts.

A shadowy figure offered me power (a one-shot ability) for a small price(my soul), so I took the power(I chose a night-kill) and killed Toaster with it. He was the one who gave me my power.

It was, but that was only part of what I said.  It was all of what you said.

If what you say is true, good for you.  You're still not scum hunting though.  And being soulless doesn't rank high on my list of townie traits.

[ToonyMan]

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

They probably can choose between killing and converting or something.

So Janus and Mr.Person are more suspicious in my book, no?  Time to wait for NUKE I suppose.

Didn't even look at the kill flavor, actually. Still, it could just be a vampire that feeds, no conversions. That wouldn't shock me in any way. You know what, it doesn't even matter. There's either a cult or no cult. What would any of you do differently if we all knew for a fact there was a cult? What would you do differently if you knew there wasn't a cult?

That's not the point, I wouldn't change my strategy if there was a cult, but there would be a cult.  You're downplaying this, kill flavor tells a lot about kills, like with NUKE's analysis.

Cult are highly improbable now?  I think not,

Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.

If one had a keen eye you could see that a vampire of some sort killed Org, now...what would a vampire BE in a mafia game?  Why cult of course!  He was killed by the cult to shush him up.

Because of the large chunk missing?  If it's a Vampire from traditional literature, I doubt it.  They tend to be neater.  It's unhelpful if your prey bleeds out and dies before you finish eating.  Why do you still think there is a Cult?  We've already found 2 scum (I guess one could be at least one could be third party), and I doubt there was more than 3 to begin with.

Eh, with NUKE's post above about a demon kill it actually sounds more fitting.  I was just looking between the lines, so far we only know about Devil's and their Demon converts so this can get tricky.

A little bit of thought means that your first comment more or less repeated what I said. A vampire wouldn't mutilate the victim.

Anyways, I'm going to give my knowledge, rather than thoughts.

A shadowy figure offered me power (a one-shot ability) for a small price(my soul), so I took the power(I chose a night-kill) and killed Toaster with it. He was the one who gave me my power.

You killed Toaster?

Um, they took your soul?  What's that do?

[Mr.Person]

JanusTwoFace: I said it yesterday. I maintain it today. Your posts consist mainly of facts and analysis. They are large and many, but lack flair. You feel like scum.

So you're accusing Janus of what, exactly? Analyzing? Posting facts? HOW DARE JANUS POST FACTS, WHAT MORE EVIL ATROCITY COULD POSSIBLY BE DONE?

If there's a Cult than we need to look for changes in behavior rather than people that are scummy throughout the game.  For example a new Cultist backing down on a previous attack (because they were right and had found the Cult Leader).

f you're looking for cult, you should be spending ALL of your time looking for people scummy throughout the game! You're trying to find the damn leader, not the members! The main thing that makes cults so powerful is that the members are easy to catch, and them getting caught literally furthers the cult's desires. You can't really read them for who they stopped attacking since there's dozens of reasons they dropped an attack. They may have been attacking their leader, but it's also possible they were attacking another member. They may just be dropping their attack to join in with the attack of the rest of the cult. It's not an automagic "He turned cult and dropped his attack on Player X, Player X must be the cult leader!"