Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nether]

I was wondering, have any of you guys heard of this guy? He's in the dutch parlement and there seems to be quite some turbulence around him.
He seems to have an offensive stance on the Muslim religion, but it also seems that that's much to discussion, as one part of te crowd screams he's a hero and the other side he's a monster.

His site:
http://www.geertwilders.nl/

[Renault]

The hair. The hair.

[Muz]

I've heard way too much about him. Extremist anti-Islamist. Extreme anti-extremism is just another form of extremism.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

The hair. The hair.

It is the source of his evil powers.

[Nonsapient]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali thinks quite a bit of him.

I know this isn't my usual extreme-liberal stance,  but Anti-Islam isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Pro-feminism and pro-traditional-Islam ARE mutually exclusive items.

[smigenboger]

I can't take him seriously. He looks like a used car salesman from a Tim Burton movie.

[Siquo]

He fails to grasp the concept of "Nie wieder". That should explain my stance on him.

I'm very disappointed in a fair number of my fellow countrymen, and would like to apologise for them to the rest of the world.

[Zifnab]

A little extreme, but he has some valid points.

That said, if we start getting some Islamic gangs roaming the streets in the US beating homosexuals, spraypainting anti-Ametican grafitti, making women stop causing earthquakes

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/boobquake-today-cleavage-earthquakes/story?id=10474704

and generally being suicide bombing threats it could lead to an unholy alliance.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://sidesalad.net/archives/GayRedneckOuterwearTShirt.jpg

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://images5.cafepress.com/product/94657005v6_480x480_Front.jpg

We forced polygamy practicing Mormons into small, remote communes because we felt that violated human rights.  What would be any different about forcing those that teach that honor killings, beheadings, forced marraiges, rape as a punishment, etc. are ok into communes away from the general population as well?

Of course, then this would probably happen

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21cy1_remember-waco_news

[Virex]

Wait, doesn't the prised "freedom of expresion" also include the freedom to be openly hateful of women, Christians and everyone else in general?

[Nonsapient]

Wait, doesn't the prised "freedom of expresion" also include the freedom to be openly hateful of women, Christians and everyone else in general?

Be hateful?  yes. 

Cut off the clitoris of your daughter when she's 5?  No.

Beat your daughter to death because she kissed a boy?  No.

Encourage others to do the same, because it is part of your religion?  No.

 (one of the above is not part of Islam proper, being mentioned only in a Hadith that may not be trustworthy;  with that said, many Muslims feel it is a Muslim act)

[smjjames]

Cut off the clitoris of your daughter when she's 5?  No.

Ritual circumcision has been done by MANY cultures, not just Islam, so you can't single them out for that.

[Nonsapient]

Cut off the clitoris of your daughter when she's 5?  No.

Ritual circumcision has been done by MANY cultures, not just Islam, so you can't single them out for that.

I expected that response, hence the addendum at the bottom.  I understand it did not COME from Islam,  but it is largely practiced by Muslim cultures.

Compare This:



to this:


That's a pretty high correlation.  Those areas with the highest overlap between Islam and FGM are also those areas that are sending Immigrants to Europe and the USA.  That culture is the Islamic culture that is spreading, and thus the one that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders are worrying about.

Also:  it isn't just circumcision.  FGM is often far worse than just removing the 'foreskin'.

[Muz]

I've taken a bit of Islamic Theology & Civilization back in uni, and I can confidently say that FGM isn't a Muslim practice. In fact, there's a huge campaign, and people dedicated to fighting it, but that never makes the news. Not many Muslim countries practice it at all, and you seem to have neglected that the Middle East and Southeast Asia don't do it.


He takes verses out of context and bloats it up. It's almost like a political commercial.

Verse 8:60, which Fitna strongly criticizes for promoting violence:
"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

But he seems to have conveniently left out Verse 8:61 (yeah, the one right after that one), which strongly promotes peace:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."


And the same is pretty much for everything else taken out of context. He seems to actually have brainwashed people into thinking that Muslims are going to storm into the Netherlands and kill everyone and eat their babies. I'm more shocked that when I mention that, some people actually don't see how ridiculous it is.

I personally don't take him seriously. He's a troll, he wants to be attacked and martyred, and I'd leave him alone like any other extremist. Those who want to believe him will believe him, just like with any other politician.

[Siquo]

Wait, doesn't the prised "freedom of expresion" also include the freedom to be openly hateful of women, Christians and everyone else in general?

No, it's only for those who agree with him.

I love how every time he is threatened he tries to sue that person. So much for freedom of expression 

His party is also called "the Party for Freedom". Which should be read as "the Party for Freedom for White Dutch People", as most of their points are actually freedom-infringing.

[Nonsapient]

I've taken a bit of Islamic Theology & Civilization back in uni, and I can confidently say that FGM isn't a Muslim practice. In fact, there's a huge campaign, and people dedicated to fighting it, but that never makes the news. Not many Muslim countries practice it at all, and you seem to have neglected that the Middle East and Southeast Asia don't do it.

Okay, so you assert authority, without showing any evidence.  It's almost like you're not even responding to what I have said.  Did you read it? 

I realize it isn't a practice as part of Orthodox Islam;  it IS however, practiced mostly by Muslims from eastern Africa; the same groups that are traveling seeking asylum in the USA and Europe.  Within these groups, it is SEEN as part of Islam.

There is a very high correlation there; of the 28 countries that routinely practice FGM, the majority have a high amount of Muslim citizens.

But let's leave FGM aside;  orthodox Islam and feminism are 100% incompatible.  'Complementarity' of rights is a far cry different from equal rights.  In the most Muslim of Muslim countries, those that follow Sharia, women are stoned to death for enticing men, while the men that grope them are free to carry on.  They were 'whores' after all.

More later maybe.  I will say this:  Islam has been, and will be, a beneficent force in the world.  It isn't right now though.