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Siren-ish

2 (40%)

Krigg-ish

1 (20%)

Siren-ish with limited space age

1 (20%)

Krigg-ish with limited space age

1 (20%)

Other?

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

[Neyvn]

It only applies when you exceed the limit. If you don't, you just add up the points normally. So:
Land
2/3/0/3 = 2+3+6 = 11
Sea
2/3/0/3 = 2+3+3 = 8
Space
2/3/0/3 = 2+3+3 = 8

(Assuming, of course, that you have all the applicable technologies)

AH gotcha... Sorry about not getting it cleanly, just some things seem unexplained in the 'Guide' on the OP...

[Neyvn]

1 Cargo = 1 size and 1/2 an industry point

Looking at Cheddarius' maths indicates that the calculation was based upon the assumption that either you have level 2 size limits tech, or bombers gain 1 size limit per point of technology. I believe that fighters and missiles get 1 point of size limit per point of size limit technology, but that bombers gain 2 points of size limit per point of size limit technology.

Mind if I look at your turn to check for myself? It would be a bit improper for your next-door neighbour to be doing that...

RAM I might actually ask you to doublecheck ALL my Designs... Well until you turn on me...

Note that to carry a conventional coloniser you need 5 cargo, 3 for the 3 armour, and 2 for the 1 land engine.

Wait what???

[Cheddarius]

You should turn on him first bro.

[techno65535]

*Waits patiently for next turn* 

[Nirur Torir]

Note that to carry a conventional colonizer you need 5 cargo, 3 for the 3 armour, and 2 for the 1 land engine.

Wait what???

Land engines cost 2. Naval engines cost 1. Bomber and missile engines cost 1/2, and can go up to 2x engine tech without penalty. Fighter engines cost 1/3, and can go up to 3x engine tech without penalty.

Air units needed the mobility bonus.

[techno65535]

I thought fighter engines could go to 3x engine tech?

[Neyvn]

Fighter engines cost 1/3, and can go up to 2x engine tech without penalty.

Does that mean I can actually double the Limit on engines without having to pay for the Softcap or am I reading it wrong???

It just seems that things changed and I don't even remember how the things went anymore...

[Neyvn]

((Note to self. Modify is your friend))

Produce Unit - Netherturrets - 4/1/0/0 - (2+2+1)*(2+2+1)/4 = 7
Check please... Could be wrong...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

DIPLOMACY//
Accept RAMs offer of Sizelimiter for Engines/Weapons.

RESEARCH//
Total Starting Research - Neatherport 4RP, Gamma Station 7RP = 11RP

Trade Engines 3 > RAM - 1RP
Trade Weapons 2 > RAM - 1RP
Receive Sizelimiter 4 < RAM - 2RP
Research Sizelimiter 3 - 4RP
Research Armour 3 - 3RP

INDUSTRY//
Total Starting Industry - Netherport 10IP, Gamma 2IP = 12IPx3 = 36IP
Produce Unit - Airnode, Bomber Design, 0/2/0/6+5C - 19IP
Produce Unit - Colonialist - 0/3/0/1 - 15IP
Produce Unit - Netherturrets - 4/1/0/0 - (2+2+1)*(2+2+1)/4 = 7 - Downgrade to 2/1/0/0 Pending = 3IP

ORDERS//
Tile K19, Siren > Tile M19, Siren > Colonize Netherstation Alpha
  Colonist 0/3/0/1 (Land)


CITIES//
Talkido Neather Port - H20, Siren (4RP/10IP) (Resource Depot)
Neatherstation Gammer - K22, Siren (7RP/2IP)
Neatherstation Alpha - M19, Siren (Underconstruction)

FORCES//
Talkido Neather Port - H20, Siren
  Sight Drone - 1/1/0/1 (Land)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Neatherturret - 4/1/0/0 (Land) - Underconstruction

Neatherstation Gammer - K22, Siren
  Produce Unit - Airnode, Bomber Design, 0/2/0/6+5C (Bomber) - Underconstruction
  Produce Unit - Colonialist - 0/3/0/1 (Colonist) - Underconstruction

Force 1 - K19, Siren > M19, Siren > Colonize Netherstation Alpha:
  Colonist 0/3/0/1 (Land)

STATUS//
Remaining Industry: 0 (or 1) (+36) [12]
Remaining Research: 0 (+11)

Weapons 2
Armor 2 > 3
Shields 0
Engines 3

Size Limits 2 > 3 > 4
Colony Limits 3
Industry 3

[Nirur Torir]

I thought fighter engines could go to 3x engine tech?

They can. Typographical error.

Fighter engines cost 1/3, and can go up to 2x 3x engine tech without penalty.

Does that mean I can actually double the Limit on engines without having to pay for the Softcap or am I reading it wrong???

It just seems that things changed and I don't even remember how the things went anymore...

You're reading it right, but it's 3x for fighters.
The rules are strange, and I'm apparently worse at explaining things then I thought I was.

[techno65535]

Basically, for one size point, one industry point, and one point in engine tech a plane can go 3 spaces and a bomber or missile can go 2. That make any more sense?

[RAM]

((Note to self. Modify is your friend))

Produce Unit - Netherturrets - 4/1/0/0 - (2+2+1)*(2+2+1)/4 = 7
Check please... Could be wrong...
In order for that to have 0 engines it would need to be a land, or possibly space unit, I will assume that it is a land unit.
Land units gain 4 Size cap for each level of size limit technology, therefore, with size limit tech 2 the calculations would be, umm, with weapons tech 2...
1st two weapon levels take 2 size points, the next two take 2 each, for 4 extra size points, so it comes to...
size=(2+4){W}+1{A}=7
It is under the tech 2 size cap of 2*4=8, so you leave it at 7, although it would, I believe, use up 7 units of cargo space to transport...
Long story short, you are right for the wrong reasons, you would have divided it by 16 but you don't multiply it or divide it at all because it was under the cap.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

DIPLOMACY//
Accept RAMs offer of Sizelimiter for Engines/Weapons.

RESEARCH//
Total Starting Research - Neatherport 4RP, Gamma Station 7RP = 11RP
That looks... Right, but your previous turn entry lists +9, get the GM to fix that...

Trade Engines 3 > RAM - 1RP
Trade Weapons 2 > RAM - 1RP
Receive Sizelimiter 4 < RAM - 2RP
Research Sizelimiter 3 - 4RP
Research Armour 3 - 3RP

INDUSTRY//
Total Starting Industry - Netherport 10IP, Gamma 2IP = 12IPx3 = 36IP
Produce Unit - Airnode, Bomber Design, 0/2/0/6+5C - 19IP
0+2+0+3=5 _ C=5 or 2.5 _ Size cap = 4*2=8
(5+5)*(5+2.5)/8= 75/8= 9+3/8
because it is a bomber= 18+6/8 = 19IP, looks good!
Produce Unit - Colonialist - 0/3/0/1 - 15IP
Colony equipment costs 10 size units, so a land coloniser with no engines (0/3/0/0(land, coloniser) has a size of 13, which is under your current size limit for land vehicles of 16, so it only costs 13, and only uses 3 points of cargo, but it is completely helpless on its own...
Produce Unit - Netherturrets - 4/1/0/0 - (2+2+1)*(2+2+1)/4 = 7 - Downgrade to 2/1/0/0 Pending = 3IP
Both of these costs are correct, but the first is correct for the wrong reasons, also, you should mention that they are land units.

The total adds up to... 19+15+7=41, which, according to your previous turn entry, is correct, but you only have 36 in your tally, you should include the 5 from the previous round in there somewhere...

ORDERS//
Tile K19, Siren > Tile M19, Siren > Colonize Netherstation Alpha
  Colonist 0/3/0/1 (Land)


CITIES//
Talkido Neather Port - H20, Siren (4RP/10IP) (Resource Depot)
Neatherstation Gammer - K22, Siren (7RP/2IP)
Neatherstation Alpha - M19, Siren (Underconstruction)(7RP/5IP)


FORCES//
Talkido Neather Port - H20, Siren
  Sight Drone - 1/1/0/1 (Land)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Patrol Drone - 2/1/0/9 (Fighter)
  Neatherturret - 4/1/0/0 (Land) - Underconstruction

Neatherstation Gammer - K22, Siren
  Produce Unit - Airnode, Bomber Design, 0/2/0/6+5C (Bomber) - Underconstruction
  Produce Unit - Colonialist - 0/3/0/1 (Colonist) - Underconstruction

Force 1 - K19, Siren > M19, Siren > Colonize Netherstation Alpha:
  Colonist 0/3/0/1 (Land)

STATUS//
Remaining Industry: 0 (or 1) (+36) [12]
Remaining Research: 0 (+11)

Weapons 2
Armor 2 > 3
Shields 0
Engines 3

Size Limits 2 > 3 > 4
Colony Limits 3
Industry 3

[Cheddarius]

Okay. I propose that, for Neyvn's sake, neither I nor RAM shall tell him about units. Nirur Torir will be the sole person to give him unit industry checks and such, and if we see an error, we won't say it in the thread, we'll only pm Nirur Torir. Hopefully this will clear up confusion from everyone saying different things, and maybe Neyvn will be able to get a grasp on the unit system... RAM, what do you think?

[RAM]

If someone is wrong on the internet, I cannot be held accountable for my actions...

Formula is: (Points)*(Noncargopoints + Cargopoints/2)/Size Cap

(2[A] + 3[E] + 4[C])*(2[A] + 3[E] + 2[C])/8
(9)*(7)/8
63/8
7.875 (x2 for IP)
16 IP

RAM is correct.

Formula is: (Points)*(Noncargopoints + Cargopoints/2)/Size Cap

I am not certain that a strict mathematical interpretation of that statement corresponds to the currently accepted rules. I believe that it would involve multiplying by the cargo value*3/2...

Basically, for one size point, one industry point, and one point in engine tech a plane can go 3 spaces and a bomber or missile can go 2. That make any more sense?

Land engines sort of break this rule, as they cost cost 2 size points, 2 industry points, and can go 1 space, but only requires a single point in engine tech...

Spoiler: Behold my dazzling verbositude! (click to show/hide)

The basic rule of unit levels:
Cost_of_Individual_Level = (Level / Technology_Level) rounded-up.
Total_Cost_of_all_Levels = Sum of individual levels.
So, with a technology level of, say, 3...
Level|pre-rounded cost|Cost|Total cost
0    |0               |0   |0
1    |1/3             |1   |1
2    |2/3             |1   |2
3    |1               |1   |3
4    |1+1/3           |2   |5
5    |1+2/3           |2   |7
6    |2               |2   |9
7    |2+1/3           |3   |12
And on and on in the same fashion. This cost is used to derive the following traits:
:Size with respect to size limits.
:Size with respect to cargo space usage.
:Cost in industry points.

The following exceptions occur:
:Bomber and missile units divide the Level of Engines by two prior to the calculation, so the costs are that of a 'normal' unit with a half of the engine level.
:Fighter units divide the Level of Engines by three prior to the calculation, so the costs are that of a 'normal' unit with a third of the engine level.
:Shield Levels and Land Unit Engine Levels double the result of the equation to determine their cost, so the costs are twice those of a 'normal' level.(do shields increase the cargo requirements in the same fashion?)
:The ability to colonise has only 1 level, with no corresponding technology, and a fixed cost of 10, but does not add to size with respect to cargo space usage.
:Cargo space has no corresponding technology, and has a fixed individual level cost of 1 with respect to size limits and cargo space usage, and 1/2 with respect to cost in industry points.

After calculating the cost of each value, the combined total will equal the basic cost of the unit...
Basic_Unit_Cost= the sum of all Cost_of_Individual_Level
Note that Basic_Unit_Cost can be different when referring to different costs, such as industry point usage and cargo space usage...

The basic cost can be further increased to determine the final cost in industry points, although cargo requirements should be determined by this point(does this also apply to double cost units?).
If the size with respect to size limits is greater than the size limit technology level multiplied by the unit's "point limit per tech level" then, and only then, apply the following equation:
Total_Size_Limit = Size_Limits_Technology_level * Point_Limit_per_Tech_Level
Size_Adjusted_Cost_in_Industry_Points = Size_with_with_respect_to_Size_Limits * Basic_Cost_in_Industry_Points / Total_Size_Limit

Some Units, specifically fighters, missiles, and bombers, then multiply the result by 2 to determine the final cost of a unit in industry points.

[techno65535]

I was only refering to planes and missiles.

[RAM]

Fair enough.