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Siren-ish

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Krigg-ish

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Siren-ish with limited space age

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Krigg-ish with limited space age

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Total Members Voted: 5

[Cheddarius]

Defense Turrets are land units.
If you have Attack 2 tech and Defense 3 tech, a 2/3/0/0 land unit is 2+3=5 points, and thus 5 industry.

If you don't have the required tech, it gets pretty complicated...
Hey Nirur, could you explain it?

[Neyvn]

Defense Turrets are land units.
If you have Attack 2 tech and Defense 3 tech, a 2/3/0/0 land unit is 2+3=5 points, and thus 5 industry.

If you don't have the required tech, it gets pretty complicated...
Hey Nirur, could you explain it?

I think I get it...

So re adjusting it to work it would be 2/1/0/0 For the simple turret...

EDIT//
What about say a Missile Turret...
The Turret itself and Missiles that it fires... Or does the need of the Turret be redundant...

[Cheddarius]

The turret is redundant. You don't need a unit to fire missiles, only to transport them.

[RAM]

Speaking of redundant, I seem to have forgotten why I would ever want to build a fighter.

You multiply the cost of a point by the multiple(or part there of) of the tech level.

Lets look at fighters

-Fighter units:
---Engines cost 1/2 a point.
---Fighters gain 1 to their point limit per tech level.
---Costs 2 industry per point.
---Must refuel at least every other turn.

weapons/armour/shields/engines+size limit or cargo space.
Your tech level is 3/2/0/1+1
The fighter you wish to build is 3/3/0/3
You pay 1 for each of the three levels of weapon, because you have level 3 engine technology.
You pay 1 each for the first two levels of armour technology, and then 2 for the third, because 3 and 4 are in the technology level x 2 bracket, for a total armour cost of 4.
No shields
Engine costs are ¹/₂ for the first point, 1 for the second, and 3/2 for the third, for a total engine cost of 3.

So 3/3/0/3 has a point value of 3+4+0+3=10. with level 10 size tech this would be the end of it, unfortunately you only have level 1 size tech.
Size tech 1 grants size 1 fighters, this vehicle is ten times over your size limit, to you ... open windows calculator, type in, ummm, 4, because that is the minimum, but if your minimum vehicle size was 4 or more then you would input your minimum vehicle size instead, so you type in 4, click on the x^y button, then type in the number(including any fractions) of times over the limit you are, in this case 10, for a cost of 1048576, which is why you don't make oversized units...

If, instead, your technologies were 3/3/0/3+3 then you 3/3/0/3 vehicle would have 3+3+0+1.5=7.5 points and a size limit of 3. if your size limit was 8 it would cost 7.5 8, and it would cost 7.5 to carry.
its point value of 7.5 divide by its size limit of 3 is 2.5, The minimum basic multiplier never changes from 4, so we will use that instead of the size limit of three. 4^2.5=32 industry points to buy it with this technology level.
 The same thing with level 6 size technology would be 7.5/6=1.25     6^1.25=9.290507-and lots more digits, round it up to 10.

Oh, and I forgot, all of the above final values are wrong, the total cost of a fighter is multiplied by 2, so 2097152, 64, or 20 depending upon your technology levels...

Can I have a Clear Guide on how to build a unit....

Say I want a Defense Turret,
A/B/C/D
A = Weapons
B = Armour
C = Shields
D = Engines

Right??? IF so then what does it mean if I put 2/3/0/0... Would I have the correct Research and how much would it cost...

[spoiler=Light Green Neyvn]
Remaining Industry: 25

Weapons 2
Armor 1

Shields 2
Engines 2

Size Limits 1
Colony Limits 1
Industry 2

Note that you cannot use shield technology until you buy the big 50 point technology that turns your shields on.

-Land units:
---Does not require engines
---Engines cost 2 per point.
---Land units gain 4 to their point limit per tech level.
/quote]
2/3/0/0 with those technologies costs 2/6/0/0 The armour cost 1 for the first point, 2 for the second, and 3 for the third. This is twice your size limit so its final cost is 16. With level 2 size limits and armour it would only cost 2+4+0+0=6 industry, Level 3 armour would drop it to 5 industry, its minimum.

[Cheddarius]

This assumes certain things, namely that you want a fighter with 3 weapons and 3 armor, that you have certain levels of techs, etc. Fighters are not meant for heavy attack and defence. Fighters are meant for extreme speed. They also dodge 75% of attacks (their advantage over bombers). Suppose you want to destroy a bunch of strong units, 4 armor and 4 weapons, but it's far away.
Let's say it's 2 hexes away. A 4/4/0/2 land unit would cost 12 industry, even assuming you had Weapons 4, Armour 4, Size 3 and Engines 2. One of these would destroy one of the enemy units. Now, one 1/1/0/2 fighter would, on average, also destroy one of the enemy units (sometimes more, sometimes less). But a 1/1/0/2 fighter doesn't need Weapons, Armour, or Engines tech, if you don't have them, and it only costs 6 industry!
Let's say it's farther - 4 hexes away. A 4/4/0/4 land unit would cost 16 industry, and need Weapons 4, Armour 4, Size 4, and Engines 4 - how unlikely it would be, that you had all of these. But an equal 1/1/0/4 fighter would only need Size 4, and it would only cost 8 industry!

Sure, fighters aren't good in all situations. But is any unit? Land units are no good if you want to attack an opponent across the sea. Sea units are no good if you want to attack an opponent across the land. Land units are often very slow because of their expensive engines. Planes are poor at using weapons and armor. Missiles must be carried, are expensive, and have miniscule size limits. But every type has its place - sea units are the go-to unit for sea battles (they can bombard and have incredibly good size limits), land units are great in general combat, missiles are excellent for hitting weak, far away units and are quite versatile (in the test game, I believe Knight Otu's missiles devastated my Stinger tanks), fighters are great against units with high attack (since they dodge a lot), and bombers are good for being fast but without needing high Size Limits tech. I'm sure all these have other uses as well.

tl;dr all types have their situations, it's just that planes maybe have less

[RAM]

The 75% chance to survive is what I was missing. And I am pretty sure that engine tech requires tech=level rather than tech=cost. So a 1/1/0/2 fighter would need 2 engines or cost 7 industry. Although I could be wrong...

[Cheddarius]

Nirur said it wasn't.

[Nirur Torir]

The 75% chance to survive is what I was missing. And I am pretty sure that engine tech requires tech=level rather than tech=cost. So a 1/1/0/2 fighter would need 2 engines or cost 7 industry. Although I could be wrong...

Not only are their engines cheaper, but each research of engine tech gives them more engine cap.
Fighter engines cost 1/3 of a point per engine level, and their max engines are 3x engine level.
Bomber and missile engines cost 1/2 of a point per engine level, and their max engines are 2x engine level.

I didn't make it clear earlier, but you can enter space without the 200 point tech that allows spaceships. Any plane or missile may enter orbit for 5 movement, and leave it again for another 5.
This allows fun things, like sticking orbital re-entry missiles into fighters with 6 engines. Or orbital insertions for infantry.
New rule: No orbital insertions on units without any engines. They may be carried down by transports that do have engines, however.
Furthermore, units will miss their first attack if they ride a transport on the same turn as an attack.

Ah, I see.

Base Colonists are a special unit. They are that size purely because I want them to be harder to transport. If you want a modified colonist, you need the technology to have tinkered with the self-replicating design on the factories enough to do so.

Huh? What do you mean? What technology is that? What tinkering?

with starting technology a coloniser would cost 0+6+0+2+10=18 18/4=4.5 4^4.5=512 With 3 armour technology and 4 size limit technology it would cost 0+3+0+2+10=15. So the coloniser design can be properly understood by someone with 3 armour and 4 size limit technologies, less than that and you are dealing with bizarre concepts that you cannot adapt to other uses.

Yes.

I 'think' that only 1 city can benefit from any one hex, so try to avoid overlap. Capturing an advanced site and fortifying it makes it difficult for people to move past, which could secure multiple city sites before you can exploit them. But the maps are fairly small and open, so I wouldn't rely upon that...

Yes again.

[RAM]

Not only are their engines cheaper, but each research of engine tech gives them more engine cap.

Wow, awesome, I will need to revise my aeronautical options...

[Nirur Torir]

Great news, we no longer have a brain melting formula for oversized units. Unless anyone can find a major problem with it, the new formula is:

With no cargo:
points²/size cap.

With cargo:
(noncargopoints + .5cargopoints)(points/size cap)

[Cheddarius]

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[RAM]

{old}
1/1/1/1+1 tech
1/1/0/2+4(land)
1+1+0+6=8  8+2=10  8+4=12
10*12/4=30{53}
10*12/8=15{20}
12=10
hmmmmm
10*12/11=11{13}

1/1/1/1+1
0/3/0/1+0+10(land)
0+6+0+2+0+10=18
18²/4=81{512}

Hmmm, it lacks the hope-crushingly exponential nature of the old system, but it should prove functional...

P.S.
 What would happen with extreme cargo...
3/3/3/3+3 tech(12)
0/1/0/1+12(land)
1+2+12=15 1+2+6=9
base cost=9 tech cost=12
Still seems to function, with 10 cargo the above would be 8 and 9...

[Nirur Torir]

Someone called me out on not explaining if IP can be given to allies.
Yes, but you (or your ally) must build the transports yourself. One cargo point may carry 2 IP. It can be given to an allied transport that has landed in your city. Moving IP between planets is also possible, via the same method.

Transferred IP will be useable on the turn after the transport lands in the city.

A destroyed transport carrying IP will have half of it (rounded down) remain in the square, ready to be gathered by any unit spending a full turn in the hex. It may also be destroyed by anyone spending a full round in the hex with a weapon. Missiles may not target this IP.

Missiles may carry IP.

[abculatter_2]

The title says something about a replacement.

What kind of replacement?

[techno65535]

We had a player drop, need a replacement.