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[de5me7]

This idea has been discussed before but I feel it can be discussed further. Of the Fookchiefed threads below, only the first is truly relevant. The others deal with a similar issue but not the same.


Previous threads:


http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=47607.msg960652#msg960652

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3010.0

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6218.0

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5056.0

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4782.0



My suggestion is that upon arrival of a siege when the “vile force of darkness” message appears you should have the option of dispatching a diplomat.

If you don’t think you can quell this siege you can dispatch a diplomat to negotiate. You must have a diplomat in the nobles screen, and he could use all those skills we never seem to use (liar, judger of intent etc).

Once dispatched the goblins will sit on the edge of the map as friendly rather than enemy forces. The diplomat will go to the leader of the enemy force and you will have a discussion similar to trading discussions.depending on the size of the goblin force they will set demands. The can demand either goods up to a certain value total, and or dwarfs upto a total number. You can try and negotiate this down. Once the numbers are settled the goblins go into your fort and take what ever they like (including artefacts if they please) up to the value (as liars they may actually go over the value a bit). They will also drag off any dwarfs they please (may need to make restrictions for nobles and military) upto the value. They then leave.

This would give the gobins slaves, artefacts and loot and create interesting storylines.

If the goblin siege is exceptionally large, and your fortress weak, they could demand you become a vassal. In which case you switch civs, all your dwarfs get extreme bad thoughts (some may leave) and you now get goblin migrants. When army arc comes in there will obviously be major differences.

Exploits: it may occur to whily players that they could send out a diplomat to stall time to get their dwarfs safe, and prepare their traps. Once negotiation is over if: negotiation fails, the goblins turn back enemy kill the diplomat and continue as normal, a goblin is killed anywhere in the process of taking items from your fort all goblins turn back enemy and the siege continues, the goblins fail to reach their totals for loot and slaves, cos the player has locked them away, within a certain time limit they return to siege mode.

Historically sieged cities often paid the invaders to leave.

You may feel this is undward or goblin like to deal rather than slaughter : http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_zecalo.html

This system could work if elves or humans sieged only without the slaves part. Elfs and humans have different motives and therefore may take different items. E.g. elves cart off all your animals and wood (they then perform funeral rights on the wood).

It could work with mega beasts, but in a different way. I don’t think you should be able to negotiate with a dragon, but you could pull the old maiden tied to a post surrounded by treasure manouver.

You could try to mega beasts to accept tribute by chaining a dwarf to a post outside your fortress with some trinkets of a certain value. The mega beast may accept the trinkets and eat the sacrifice, or may just attack your fort. If it does accept you will have to provide the same sacrifice each year hence forth.

[bluephoenix]

I like your idea, but I think this will be covered by the caravan arc or county arc- "III.A.2: More interesting trade agreements and diplomacy in dwarf mode based on actual world situation (Core62) "

[Pilsu]

I don't think cities actually let the invaders in to get their ransom. They'd be free to take everything you've got at that point, murder you all and rape your women if they damn well felt like it. And oh yes, they felt like it alright. Piling the goods into a wagon makes more sense. I doubt dwarves would submit to giving slaves considering their ethics on the matter.


The goblins should not waste time negotiating if they figure they can take everything you have without much effort.

[bluephoenix]

I don't think cities actually let the invaders in to get their ransom. They'd be free to take everything you've got at that point, murder you all and rape your women if they damn well felt like it. And oh yes, they felt like it alright. Piling the goods into a wagon makes more sense. I doubt dwarves would submit to giving slaves considering their ethics on the matter.


The goblins should not waste time negotiating if they figure they can take everything you have without much effort.

Yeah, if this gets implemented the tag [WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE] would finally get a use.

[j0nas]

Upon reading the title I thought to myself 'yet another dumb idea', but as I read it I saw that it was a pretty cool one.  This would be nice.

[de5me7]

The goblins should not waste time negotiating if they figure they can take everything you have without much effort.

an obvious proviso for goblins or any other invaders is that hte risk off attacking and loosing casualties would be offset by the ease of tribute.

I suggested the goblins come and take stuff simply to hand control of the situation over to them. A key reason why i like this idea is it would alow goblins to steel artifacts and take important crafts dorfs with out the fort being destroyed, or the player having much control. I think this would create interesting stories.

[Firehound]

Perhaps bribing of invaders and intelligent megabeasts depending on both entities ethics on bribery.

Bribed creatures would hang around the area, fight, and be labelled as friendly, they would demand items/furniture/lair/sacrifices and long term bribed creatures would have quite a bit of lewt as a result. Depending on the creatures previous masters, they may react differently to different creatures, like goblins who have been bribed may join the next unbribed invasion, or long-term bribed ones may tell the advance scouts that 'this is not the fortress they were looking for.' Other potential consequences might be having to constantly produce wealth, lest the dragon turns on you and has your fortress for brunch, caravans cease coming due to your mercenaries waylaying them, and other problems and opportunities of varying magnitude.

[Medicine Man]

Perhaps bribing of invaders and intelligent megabeasts depending on both entities ethics on bribery.

Bribed creatures would hang around the area, fight, and be labelled as friendly, they would demand items/furniture/lair/sacrifices and long term bribed creatures would have quite a bit of lewt as a result. Depending on the creatures previous masters, they may react differently to different creatures, like goblins who have been bribed may join the next unbribed invasion, or long-term bribed ones may tell the advance scouts that 'this is not the fortress they were looking for.' Other potential consequences might be having to constantly produce wealth, lest the dragon turns on you and has your fortress for brunch, caravans cease coming due to your mercenaries waylaying them, and other problems and opportunities of varying magnitude.

This is a great idea.

[j0nas]

Perhaps bribing of invaders and intelligent megabeasts depending on both entities ethics on bribery.

...

This would also be pretty cool.  This thread is full of win!

[Catastrophic lolcats]

This is a very cool concept (and somewhat needed with the new hardcore goblins), and even though I'm sure Toady plans to do this its still cool to discuss. I always liked the idea of more random events to be added. This is a very cool concept (and somewhat needed with the new hardcore goblins), and even though I'm sure Toady plans to do this its still cool to discuss. I always liked the idea of more random events to be added. Such as dragon's cultists coming to your fort and demanding a masterwork plate armour set for their great god. Rejected such a demand causes the dragon to come with a mighty army and flame everything you loved.

Of course this system would have to be implemented right or otherwise some of the more crafty fort designers might channel under a diplomat meeting with an army and sacrifice the dwarf for the greater good (or this could remain a feature, whatever). Might implement an "honour" system where dwarfs won't move to your fort if you've lost too many battles, ended sieges with tricky dealings, declared yourself French or killed too many unarmed civilians.
I was thinking of this myself but I never worked out how to pay off an invading army, I thought of a new stockpile called "tribute" that appeared during sieges and any crap you had that was valuable could be stacked up there, and offered to the idiots who would want such items but the system of trading artefacts is much better.
Also some Humans and Elves could be a lot less aggressive when it comes to victory. Some more stupid brave human generals might just leave your fort once you surrounded due to honour or some other excuse.

Oh here’s an idea. How about offering a group of ambushers/bandits jobs as military forces inside your fortress with high paying jobs and good living conditions, I would like to think that a little yipping lizard would jump at the opportunity to stop sleeping in the dirt and eating bugs to live in a dwarven fortress and drink nothing but booze. If you fail to meet their demands they might rebel against you even turning some of their newly made friends against you, thus increasing the yield of fun one can get in the average crop of dwarf fortress.
Long post as always.

[Rowanas]

Siegers become yours
like loyal mercenaries
better keep them sweet