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[UXLZ]

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I don't really rage, but this is the closest thing to a thread for feeling hurt, angry, and embittered. I don't make a habit of voicing feelings like this, since it doesn't stand to change anything. They aren't feelings in response to things that can change, at least that I have an ability to change directly. More just things to accept and find ways to avoid or live around.

I've trained myself to be pretty self-sufficient. Been doing most of my own caretaking since I was young, because I didn't have an available alternative. At certain points in my life I've tried something different, opening up to the support of others, counting on their help to free up some of my mental, emotional, or material resources for other things. And every time I trust people to mean what they say, or to follow through with promises and commitments they make, I eventually get burned, and lose whatever momentum I have going in my life. Am I expecting too much? Am I trusting the wrong people? Are there even people who don't do that? I honestly don't know.

I started seeing this pattern recently, when my biodad let slip that he considers me an "investment" of his. Funny how this comes from the man who saddled my mother with the debt of singlehandedly raising 3 kids while he dodged child support... not to mention the psychological scars that came from growing up in the situation he created for me. Someone who later promised help with college tuition, but pulled it at a time that cost me my grants, enrollment, apartment, and saddled me with debt I'm still paying off. A man who offered me a place to live rent-free while I worked to self-educate and build a freelance career, until I fully committed to it... at which point he asked more and more in rent until it passed anything I've paid for an apartment before. I don't know what exactly he thinks he invested, nor what he's expecting to collect in return. I don't even know how someone could consider their family that way... it's hard for me to imagine a code of ethics that permits that. But time and again, I believed he meant what he said, and it cost me.

He's certainly not alone in this either... it's a pattern that's established itself thoroughly in friendships, romantic relationships, even jobs. People who see me as something they stand to gain from... a source of emotional support, freely-given time and effort, or some other need, who bait me in with ideas of mutual benefit or unconditional reciprocation. A relationship history full of partners who've taken advantage of how badly I want to trust others, and my willingness to help unconditionally... people who have fostered the codependence I've worked hard to dismantle- my tendency to take on their problems as my own, and commit any resources they ask for- only to leave when they got what they wanted, or use it as leverage against me. Always people I care about, people I sympathize with, and people I love.

Hope, optimism, and trust are in my nature... I have to believe that something better is always possible, or there's really no damned point in anything. And I'm tired of people using that against me. I'm not a fucking investment. I'm not a therapist. I'm not a thing to be used as necessary, then discarded. And I'm tired of trusting that the people I let into my life consider me as something other than that. I'm tired of being burned for loving people, believing people to mean what they say, or trusting them in the ways they try to convince me they can and should be trusted. I'm tired of being open about my troubles, if people only offer help to gain leverage against me. I don't even know why I'm writing any of this down, when it stands to change nothing. I'm just so damned tired of it all.

Oh my god. -hug- -hug- -hug-
I'm not usually the type of person to hug others, but you deserve it, and need it. Just reading that makes me almost want to cry. I don't, of course, I'm not even sure if I can cry, but that's so sad.
You're probably a lot older than me, so I'm not sure if you'll accept it, but you truly have my sympathy.

 

[Orange Wizard]

* Orange Wizard hands Solifuge a cup of tea and a box of Internet Support Cookies.

[hector13]

-snip-

It's the issue with personal relationships that people tend to have. They expect something in return for what they do for other people, treating it like a business transaction. Most do it unconsciously though, it's just the way of the world (at least, the Western world), and it's a bad, bad thing. I agree, though. Pain in the ass.

I would suggest that expressing the emotions is a good thing, considering then at least you've given voice to what's bothering you, and can take steps (if poss.) to fix it. Otherwise,  mild catharsis because it's not just festering away inside you. Rage is a bad one for that (and an emotion I have yet found a "constructive" outlet for) and it's also the one that makes you most irrational; fixating on it only makes it worse, and you're more likely to act upon it and then, irrespective of the initial reason for being so fucked off and causing the action, you're now the bad guy. Yay!

Anyway, I don't really have much advice to give you, beyond shouting at the people who do this. You're offering your time and resources because you care about them, not because you want them to do something for you. (presumably)

The bigger issue seems to be your dad though. I don't speak to mine any more, mostly because of shit similar to you (though to a much lesser degree). I know it's hard to do, but if he makes you miserable and considers you an investment (and all the allusions to money that has) you might be better without him in your life.

As an addendum, there are good people in the world, they can just be hard to find sometimes. Hopefully there is some cosmic mechanism at play, and you find one soon, and the collective hopes of Bay12 can influence this to make it happen faster for you.

[nenjin]

Altruism isn't really a good survival trait, it's true. On the other hand, I'd like to think it's the mark of a civilized world that it exists.

[smjjames]

-snip-

Sounds like the only 'investment' that he made was the biological imperitve to pass on his genes Deadbeat dads are stupid.

I'm glad mine wasn't a deadbeat dad.

[Bauglir]

Imma take a moment to be glad my biodad hit the... cocaine, I think? a little too hard when I was 2. Perhaps I dodged a real shitty situation like this. Although the alcoholic stepfather wasn't an ideal sequel, he just wound up wanting nothing to do with me more than anything else (he wasn't an angry guy, and has since recovered by my understanding, so that's good). The lightweight fundie rounding out the trilogy at least genuinely cared about people, in his own judgmental way (till the heart attack did him in a couple of years later). Hm.

Anyway! There are genuinely decent folk out there, Soli, of the kind that aren't just looking to exploit you. Trouble is, a lot of people wind up in your situation and decide they might as well take advantage of everybody too. I hope you find some - they're rare, and the damn trouble is that you can't find out who's who without risking getting burned. Y'deserve better. You're a damn awesome person, and you're absolutely right that you're not a resource to be mined.

[hector13]

Well, I'd imagine that 'something for something' mentality is there for a reason. You'd not do well in nature if you gave people everything and accepted nothing in return, as everyone around you would get more resources and you'd lose more and more.

We're not in nature anymore, though. It's a foolish argument to say "in the past, our ancestors would've died if they did that!" 'cause, you know, it's not that past now. Evolutionary psychology is... not something I hold in very high regard.

I mean, it's nice getting something from someone, but it shouldn't be an expectation in a personal relationship. I spend time with my friends and family because I enjoy their company, but I don't expect them to be able to accommodate me all the time, and I certainly wouldn't demand they entertain me at the shortest notice and pay for everything that we happen to do.

I'm well aware my personal values are at odds with the rest of society though, so yeah...

[nenjin]

We're not in nature anymore, though.

Don't kid yourself. Society is usually one hot meal away from heading back into the jungle.

[hector13]

We're not in nature anymore, though.

Don't kid yourself. Society is usually one hot meal away from heading back into the jungle.

Until that point, I maintain my stance

[NullForceOmega]

Walk into the nastiest part of an inner-city 'hood in the middle of the night, stay there as long as you can safely, then tell me that we have no need for our natural survival traits.  I'm very happy that my base survival instincts work as intended, because without them I'd be dead at least ten times over.

[nenjin]

We're not in nature anymore, though.

Don't kid yourself. Society is usually one hot meal away from heading back into the jungle.

Until that point, I maintain my stance

The point already gets reached on a daily basis in developing countries.

[hector13]

We're not in nature anymore, though.

Don't kid yourself. Society is usually one hot meal away from heading back into the jungle.

Until that point, I maintain my stance

The point already gets reached on a daily basis in developing countries.

I was all ready to say "I totally already said that" but I evidently pre-edited that out my post... my argument was from the perspective of the developed world, since you could conceivably just be a selfish bastard who gives no shits for anyone and be able to get by in a developed country.

Indeed, it's probably beneficial to be that way, too.

[Frumple]

The point already gets reached on a daily basis in developing countries.

... indeed. Which still have tons upon tons of collaborative effort and, often enough, various sorts of altruism. Turns out when you put a human in bad straights we have a strong tendency towards exhibiting various social behaviors that include helping each other out! Who would have thunk it.

Y'know, except everyone, because we're social animals and the various traits that improve that aspect -- behaviors that fall within the spectrum of altruistic behavior most definitely included -- are more than a little natural.

*grumbles* Probably a better topic for its own thread, though, if it goes much further.

[nenjin]

My point is, people like to act as though society is so far removed from the environment that spawned it. I think that's mostly an illusion created by a ready food supply. I take the position that most people are still savage, moderated by various layers of comfort and social norms. It takes very little to make that break down. I'm not saying developing nations lack the kinds of social niceities we enjoy. I'm saying the belief is challenged on a more realistic basis than it is in 1st world countries.

And, take for example, Katrina. We got a first hand look at what the breakdown of social stability is in the United States. It's also one of those disasters people tried to forget about as quickly as possible.

[i2amroy]

Of course Katrina is also the point when you have some definite good examples of humans working together to help each other with no immediate reward. Not to say that society as a whole didn't suffer, but there were definite counter examples to savagery that were present as well. (Source: Matrina museum in New Orleans).