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[Bauglir]

If we're criticizing feminism now, my main problem - and it's not simply a strawman (-woman?) but effectively the mainstream - is that feminists constantly say "Sexism affects men, too! Men have tons of totally problems stemming from unfair cultural gender roles! But we're not going to address any of them because women have slightly more! And if you try to, you're an evil em-ar-ay!"

My experience differs in general, but I'm sorry people have been behaving that way. Gives the idea a bad name. Unfortunately there are a lot of people in any group who'll have kneejerk reactions, especially when (again, in my experience) men's problems have a tendency to come up most often in conversations that are in-progress and about women's problems as an adversarial, "What about me?" sort of response. When discussing the topic of women having problems because their importance is marginalized without conscious intention to do so, that's exactly the wrong thing to do.

I do admit that I've seen a few examples of what you're describing, where somebody started a conversation about men's problems and got shut down by somebody bringing up women's as the counterpoint (and, sadly, I didn't recognize it at the time and behave accordingly), but I don't think it's the standard behavior. Again, just my experience, but there it is.

[Frumple]

As nice as it might be to discuss the topic again, this is really not the goddamn place for it, doubly so considering how many feminism-related threads have been locked at this point.

[SealyStar]

People keep insisting that feminism is a good thing but all I've ever seen it do is cause arguments and idiocy. At least the smegging Spanish Inquisition went out and did something, instead of just whining about men taking up too much space on public transportation and saying we should ban words because girls might get their bloody feelings hurt.
I know this isn't indicative of every feminist, but therein lies the other problem. Who the hell decides what feminism is? Do you have a Pope? No? Because for a supposedly world-changing movement, it's ludicrously uncoordinated.

That's the second-biggest problem for me. Most "mainstream" feminist issues are trivial problems (everything Anita Sarkeesian talks about, but that's for the women in games thread) if not outright windmills ("manspreading").

Anyway, Frumple is right. I think there should be a place to debate it, but let's not jeopardize an unrelated thread.

[EnigmaticHat]

If we're criticizing feminism now, my main problem - and it's not simply a strawman (-woman?) but effectively the mainstream - is that feminists constantly say "Sexism affects men, too! Men have tons of totally problems stemming from unfair cultural gender roles! But we're not going to address any of them because women have slightly more! And if you try to, you're an evil em-ar-ay!"

My experience is that generally the opposite happens (granted I don't browse many forums except this one), people will bring up men's issues as a "hey look both genders suffer equally" thing.  But yeah, I'm sure it goes both ways, lots of obnoxious people on the internet.

MRAs tend to be terrible.  Most are thinly veiled anti-feminist movements rather than the legitimate genderflipped equivalent they claim to be.

The basic problem is that, if you go and look at their websites and the subreddit and everything, a lot of it has that conspiracy theory-esque quality where all problems can be traced back to women or feminism.  This is the OPPOSITE of what men face nowadays; as a whole, most of the oppressive stereotypes towards men are enforced by men.  I mean that on a very literal level; a guy who acts "feminine", "weak", or god help him, is actually gay, is probably going to get the most shit from other men rather than women.

All of which varies wildly based on where you live and who you know personally.  Also whether you're in school or not, high schoolers and middle schoolers seem to be some of the worst people in regards to masculine shaming, probably why there are all the suicides.

[i2amroy]

Actually if you look at attempted suicides as well as completed ones (as opposed to just completed ones), 3x as many attempts get carried out by girls as guys. It's just that guys tend to use suicide methods that are likely to be successful (like guns) while girls tend to use methods that are more likely to fail (like overdosing).

Also funnily enough there is a general trend where suicides become more likely as your age increases. There's actually way less suicides among young people then you get in the older population, it's just that they are more newsworthy (and they are the bottom edge, since they are the first age group with any real suicide rates).

[Arcvasti]

As nice as it might be to discuss the topic again, this is really not the goddamn place for it, doubly so considering how many feminism-related threads have been locked at this point.

In case anyone missed this nice little nugget of common sense.

[EnigmaticHat]

I just get frustrated because people who talk shit about feminism get to have their posts but the moment I defend it that's too much for the forum to handle.  At least that's what it feels like.  Keeps happening.

[Orange Wizard]

That's just an indication of public opinion.

[Yoink]

You could always do the same thing, and go around dropping the occasional slice of opinion into a thread, before quickly piping down when it gets flame-y... but then you'd be doing the exact same thing as what you accuse people on the other side of the argument of doing.

* Yoink actually doesn't really have an opinion on this either way, he just finds such discussions annoying.

[Frumple]

I just get frustrated because people who talk shit about feminism get to have their posts but the moment I defend it that's too much for the forum to handle.  At least that's what it feels like.  Keeps happening.

If a post bothers you, report it, create a thread and take the conversation there, or make your comments in PM. You're welcome to defend the subject, just... not in the rage thread. Frankly, the folks that keep talking shit should probably stay the hell out of here, too, but only the Toad can really stop that kind of behavior, when it comes right down to it.

Time and place and all that. Have the good sense some are obviously lacking.

[itisnotlogical]

After cutting back a while, it's easy to forget how painful a sudden large and heavy meal can be. HRRRRRGGGGH.

[EnigmaticHat]

I just get frustrated because people who talk shit about feminism get to have their posts but the moment I defend it that's too much for the forum to handle.  At least that's what it feels like.  Keeps happening.

If a post bothers you, report it, create a thread and take the conversation there, or make your comments in PM. You're welcome to defend the subject, just... not in the rage thread. Frankly, the folks that keep talking shit should probably stay the hell out of here, too, but only the Toad can really stop that kind of behavior, when it comes right down to it.

Time and place and all that. Have the good sense some are obviously lacking.

I know, I'm not accusing you of anything.  Its just... aggravating.

Maybe I'll try my hand at making a lock resistant feminist thread.  The ones I've entered have seemed unfocused and unmoderated.

[TamerVirus]

The usual trend is thus:
1. "IMMA MAKIN A THREAD NAO"
2. "RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH
3. "NO U"
4. BUT WHAT ABOUT ALBANIA?
5. ACN WE GET BACK ON TRACK?!?!?!?
6. NO U.
7. Imma lock this thread cuz its too cuhrazy - Toad Boss

AND REPEAT

[LordSlowpoke]

but

what about albania

[Rose]

no u