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[Vector]

One of my ex-boyfriends (the rapist) stood on a street corner in Kansas with a couple of other people, carrying signs, with people driving by and cursing him out.

Honestly, the entirety of GGamers post sounds like someone who wasn't around post-9/11 and especially for the Afghanistan-then-suddenly-Iraq invasion bullshit that GWB pulled.

The "go buy duct tape" bullshit ._.

[Dutchling]

Ah, Iraq. I remember this kid's song about... Bush bombing Iraq with machines and guns? It never really made sense to me at the time.
fake edit: it was a variation of this one. Not very hard to understand why

~bush bush~ ~bush bush~

[Neonivek]

In fact one of the big issues back at the time of Post 9/11 was that there was quite a sizable amount of people who favored and who did not favor the war.

Mind you the total lies fabricated to get people there... might have had something to do with it.

One of the major reasons for this "War is a last resort only" thinking MIGHT have to do with education on WW2.

[Bauglir]

TL;DR: thousands of people died little over ten years ago, and people need to remember. Buck up and mourn, you blubbering pansies.

This happens literally every day in less spectacular ways, and it doesn't get plastered over everybody's collective consciousness every year like clockwork. Nothing wrong with mourning the tragedies that matter to you, but you can't mourn all of them, and insisting that everybody ought to mourn the ones that matter to you in particular is, well, probably not the height of arrogance, but it's up there.

[KingofstarrySkies]

I dunno. It just...Shocked the world at the time. Sorta like the Holocaust, really.

[nenjin]

I'm just glad the majority of the country has moved past becoming rabid at the mere thought of 9/11. The way politicians and media gamed our emotions the first few years afterwards just heaped insult on top of tragedy.

[hops]

It's not the scale that matters, it's the coverage.

I think everyone can agree that genocide in general is terrible.

[ggamer]

daaah shit, I knew I didn't word that well. I'm just a bit sick of the fact that the only opinions people are allowed to hold are "who gives a fuck about 9/11 obviously the fact that Al-Qeuda grew weaker over the years after 9/11 means that we never should have been to Iraq in the first place and as a matter of fact blahblahblah" and "Goddamn sand niggers come into my country and blow up the twin towers then have the gall to try to be muslims in our country did you know that they tried to build a mosque in New York who the fuck do they think they are and as a matter of fact blahblahblah."

I don't know about other people, but I'd generally say if you're still "bucking up and mourning" after over a fucking decade, it's not time to mourn, it's time to see a shrink. Shit is beyond unhealthy.

Shit, mourn wasn't the right word. It's respectful to at least remember that 3,000 people who didn't really give a shit about politics were killed. The point I was trying to make is that if we forget this terrorist attack, like the last couple acts of fundamentalist terrorism that we've forgotten about, chances are it's bound to happen again.

(-snip, for reason see the @redking post-)

Honestly, the entirety of GGamers post sounds like someone who wasn't around post-9/11 and especially for the Afghanistan-then-suddenly-Iraq invasion bullshit that GWB pulled.

100% true, sorry if that sort of colors my post.

This happens literally every day in less spectacular ways, and it doesn't get plastered over everybody's collective consciousness every year like clockwork. Nothing wrong with mourning the tragedies that matter to you, but you can't mourn all of them, and insisting that everybody ought to mourn the ones that matter to you in particular is, well, probably not the height of arrogance, but it's up there.

Agreed, sorry for sounding like an ass, I was pissed off when I wrote that post.

[Helgoland]

Sorta like the Holocaust, really.

Aaaaand we're there. This is the height of arrogance.

Two thousand Americans dying is not as bad as seven million Jews, Sinti and Roma, mentally ill people, resistance fighters, and people with enough of a conscience to try and save some of the intended victims butchered on an industrial scale.

I'd like to say American arogance, but... Fuck it. This is American arrogance.

[RedKing]

I just think it's funny how now we have the privilege to look back and say "we shouldn't have gone into Iraq" once we paid the price for not thinking this through all the way and half-assed an attempt to eliminate Al-Queda. Talk as much shit as you want, but people wouldn't have said a god damn thing about not sending troops when the tragedy was still fresh.

I don't mean to pile on, but....fuck it, I'm piling on.

LOTS of people said a LOT of god damn things about not sending troops. I was one of them. I went and spent my 27th birthday marching around Washington DC with a quarter-million other people. I went back up in Jan 2003 and damn near froze my ass off marching in protest. Maybe you forget, but we didn't go into Iraq until spring of 2003. A full 18 months after 9/11.

Your argument might carry a little more weight as regards Afghanistan -- we were in-country within a month or so of 9/11, and I didn't oppose that. I didn't relish the idea of a war, but it seemed a reasonable one -- war with al-Qaeda, and with the Taliban when they refused to cooperate or turn over al-Qaeda leadership enjoying their hospitality. That made sense.

Iraq was a cockeyed pile of bullshit from the get-go. No Iraqi involvement in 9/11, Saddam was not a fundamentalist, or a fan of al-Qaeda, or liked by al-Qaeda. There was no credible evidence that he was looking to do anything other than enjoy being a tinpot dictator and occasionally hurl invective at the US for his own domestic gain, a la Castro or Gaddafi or Kim Jong Il.

The fact that for so many people 9/11 became somehow, insanely, morphed into "We gotta go pay back Saddam for them hitting us on 9/11" was horrifying, maddening and dividing. I think that's the single moment that divided this country more than any other in the last 15 years, even more than Bush v Gore. It was when half the country looked at their neighbors, their friends, their own family and thought, "Holy shit, you people have lost your freakin minds!". And the other half looked back and thought, "Holy shit, you hate America!"

And everything since has been a deepening of that sanity/insanity divide.

[SealyStar]

A relevant sequel to my WTF a few days ago: Campus Crazies II: Truther Edition.

Just like last time the loons (they're tag-teaming) have gotten exactly the reaction they wanted.

[ggamer]

@Redking

Son of a bitch. Much like every time the topic came up in debate, I forgot that Iraq and Afghanistan were a lot further apart than I think they are, sorry about that.

Man, I am full of apologies today.

Looking back on it, it seems a lot of people make the same mistake too. The war in Afghanistan was most definitely not a mistake, for the reasons listed above. However, Iraq was far more tenuous a situation, and caused far more trouble than it was worth.

Okay, see, now i'm embarrassed, i'm supposed to know this shit.

[nenjin]

Being that ggamer has admitted his viewpoint was flawed, let's not continue the pile on.

[ggamer]

Being that ggamer has admitted his viewpoint was flawed, let's not continue the pile on.

Definitely, about Iraq and Afghanistan, seeing as how I was talking about a completely separate war than what ya'll were talking about. However, I think the point about 9/11 still stands.

[smjjames]

Not to mention the fact that the whole WMD claim of Saddam having nukes was based on the statement of an informant with low (or even no) credibility and the info had been tortured out of the person.

It was an even flimsier causus belli than Putins claim of protecting Russians from harm, which at least was plausible.