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[BlackFlyme]

The only thing I remember being taught in kindergarten was the alphabet and how to colour inside the lines. I also remember my nan trying to teach me to read write before I was even sent to pre-school.

Though I have all kinds of issues with the school system.

[Orange Wizard]

Those are ridiculously high expectations for first-education-ever. I should clarify that I was surprised at the late start to school, rather than the content of that schooling. I'm sorry for sounding like an arse.
Kids in NZ are generally expected to know basic stuff like counting and alphabet-ing(?) when they start school. Pre-school isn't required per se, but it's pretty common.
I'm not too sure about spelling/writing and other more complex stuff, but I remember having to write a story about a dinosaur or something on my first day of school.

[SalmonGod]

Alphabet and numbers were definitely included constantly in learning activities when I was in Kindergarten, but I'm pretty sure there was no hard expectation/testing or homework.  Not until 1st grade. 

I understand a lot of kids go into it with pre-school experience or nuclear parents that give them a big headstart on the basics, but basing the curriculum off of the assumption that all kids are starting with that is ridiculous.

[RedKing]

Sorry man, them's the breaks. Kindergarten now is about what 1st or maybe 2nd grade used to be. My daughter's first Spanish lesson was when she was 3. She showed up for kindergarten already reading at a 2nd-grade level. Which is how she's now 7 and reading A Wrinkle in Time and the first couple of Harry Potter books. One of her extra credit words on her spelling test last year (1st grade) was "air resistance". 

We live in a society where literacy and higher learning are so incredibly goddamn crucial to making the difference between a shitty blue-collar job and a liveable white-collar one, that early education trumps having a carefree childhood. I'm already concerned for my 4-year old because he has no attention span and no interest in learning shit. Which is perfectly normal for a 4-year old boy, but puts him behind the curve. His sister had the somewhat unfair benefit of being the only child for the first 3.5 years, which means she got her colors, letters, numbers, etc drilled into her by yours truly before she could even speak.


I was a product of the "old" kindergarten, but had grandparents who drilled the hell out of me before I went to school and during the summers in elementary school. The result was that I was bored shitless in kindergarten, which is why they gave me the school's Apple ][ to play with. I was cleaning up the basement at my old house the other weekend and found some of my programming work. From when I was eight. HGR2 graphics, and LOGO and such.

[Bauglir]

That feeling when 8 year old RedKing was a better programmer than 25 year old Bauglir is.

Actually that's equal parts awe and ego-crushing, with no rage to speak of, but I don't think it's worth figuring out where to crosspost it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

To be honest, thinking about it, it isn't that bad. I could easily do all the things your son is expected to when I was his age. He's in a position where it should be easy enough to get through, and if he hates school....well, he was always going to hate school. I've never met another person who truly liked it, though I held out enjoyment until about third grade.

[Tiruin]

My younger one started kindergarten this year, and it's a nightmare.  This 5 year old kid is still overwhelmed by the very concept of school and the change it represents in his life, but they're expecting him to learn the entire alphabet (upper and lower case), write all letters and numbers neatly, independently read and write vocabulary words, understand how to spell words he doesn't know by sounding them out, and do basic addition problems as his learning goal for the end of the first nine weeks.  What the fuck is this shit?!  This is more than I was expected to be capable of halfway through first grade!  He's had hours of homework every fucking night since the 2nd day, and very quickly decided he hates school.  I want to know what the (&#W@$%)(#$)%* these people are thinking.

I'm pretty sure my Kindergarten consisted mostly of coloring, singing songs, stories, and taking naps.  I don't think homework was a thing at all.

My best guess is the outlook on development. However, in my opinion I've also noted that it may at times lack the human part of the development.
Exposure, experience and understanding; the foundational ideas of development (as well as consistency and wholism)--you can't learn something /so quick/ unless you've got backing knowledge or exposure to the idea ([as a generalism] like the alphabet. Get a nice poster with pictures or representative ideas and hang it in an area where it could be commonly viewed--it'd help the concept if remembered...err, as an example. [though understanding of the thought process also happens here...])

Though what makes me rage is the...um, how mechanical the educational system has become. Either too slow or too fast it doesn't feel...holistic, anymore?

[...]
We live in a society where literacy and higher learning are so incredibly goddamn crucial to making the difference between a shitty blue-collar job and a liveable white-collar one, that early education trumps having a carefree childhood. I'm already concerned for my 4-year old because he has no attention span and no interest in learning shit. Which is perfectly normal for a 4-year old boy, but puts him behind the curve. His sister had the somewhat unfair benefit of being the only child for the first 3.5 years, which means she got her colors, letters, numbers, etc drilled into her by yours truly before she could even speak.[...]

This...is  . Reminds me of a lesson in precaution and inefficiency of the price of giving all to knowledge, and none to the personal aspect.
It's like hierarchical learning. Very prevalent in society nowadays, but inefficient as a whole.

[MaximumZero]

Don't forget that Bauglir is a better programmer than a 30 year old MZ. Should make you feel at least a little bit better, right?

[Bauglir]

Don't forget that Bauglir is a better programmer than a 30 year old MZ. Should make you feel at least a little bit better, right?

Ah, but literally-any-age MZ is a superior face-punching force of nature to Bauglir. The only thing holding you back here is the fact that processors lack faces - as soon as human-replica robots get past the uncanny valley, it's all over. Not to mention your many other skills, such as maximum salesmanship.

[SalmonGod]

It has me feeling too overwhelmed and pissed off to accomplish anything tonight.  It's ridiculous to me to imagine any notion of a competitive curve beginning so young.  It's just not constructive.  At that age, dealing with foundational stuff, learning patterns are extremely erratic, and overwhelmingly reliant on motivation.  I went straight from being completely illiterate to reading The Hobbit in less than two years, and that's because I thought school was fun.  There's no way that would have happened if I wasn't interested.  My kid was incredibly excited to start kindergarten.  He wore his backpack around the house religiously for a month beforehand.  They've managed to kill his interest in school in two weeks.  That's going to hurt him more than any relaxation in standards possibly could.  Grr... I'm so pissed off about this :[

[RedKing]

That feeling when 8 year old RedKing was a better programmer than 25 year old Bauglir is.

Actually that's equal parts awe and ego-crushing, with no rage to speak of, but I don't think it's worth figuring out where to crosspost it.

If it's any consolation, 8 year old RedKing was a better programmer than 18 year old RedKing was. I could program the shit out of the Apple ][ and the C64/128. When I made the jump to IBM (when I first went off to college), I tried to start off learning QuickBASIC (which, let's face it, isn't remarkably different in concepts from Commodore BASIC or Apple BASIC, just minor differences in syntax).

I couldn't. It was like being fluent in Latin and French and then finding Italian a complete fucking mystery. Completely lost interest after that.

It was nice though, that I could glance back at my code (printed off lovingly on form-feed glossy paper) and still tell what the hell it was doing.

[Bauglir]

They've managed to kill his interest in school in two weeks.  That's going to hurt him more than any relaxation in standards possibly could.  Grr... I'm so pissed off about this :[

You're absolutely right on all counts, especially quoted. If there's anything worth raging about, it's the damage to his education they're doing. I don't know how to do it, but basically the only remedy I can think of is to decouple the concepts of "learning" and "school" somehow. Realistically, that's a fairly natural divide - but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it at the time, when you're spending 6+ hours every day being told that school is about learning, instead of obedience.

[IronTomato]

I learned the alphabet when I was 3 or 4 or something, as well as other basic concepts, thanks to all the weird TV shows and games my parents always showed me and my brother. My parents claim that I taught myself how to read after that, but I can't remember shit, so I'm gonna assume it's not true.

Although I do remember that a big part of my early school years was other kids asking me how to spell everything, because I was the one who always knew. Nowadays, it's the same way, only I get irritated and point out their misspellings instead of them asking.

[Willfor]

I heard one of my coworkers talking about kindergarten around here a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, they're supposed to know letters and numbers before they even go so that the teachers can start them on computers almost immediately.

I wasn't sure what to think about the world anymore. To be fair, I'm still not.

[IronTomato]

I heard one of my coworkers talking about kindergarten around here a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, they're supposed to know letters and numbers before they even go so that the teachers can start them on computers almost immediately.

I wasn't sure what to think about the world anymore. To be fair, I'm still not.

Yeah, I heard that our district's kindergarten was getting shitty for that exact reason. They've been handing out iPads like candy, and deciding that it was essential to know their way around them, instead of actually trying to teach the kids the right way.

"Okay, what's the cheapest and most reliable way to make sure our childrens are learning?"
"APPLE IPAD, BISH"