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Author Topic: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Trust-o-nomics Edition  (Read 3766951 times)

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32310 on: February 04, 2014, 12:49:17 am »

So apparently, a single language that unifies a country is considered racist and must be done away with as a concept. It's not even tumblr I'm getting this from, just a radio host that I previously enjoyed listening to.

I'm so done with this shit.

* LordSlowpoke puts on a shirt with a dozen different swastikas on it
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Steelmagic

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32311 on: February 04, 2014, 12:51:18 am »

So apparently, a single language that unifies a country is considered racist and must be done away with as a concept. It's not even tumblr I'm getting this from, just a radio host that I previously enjoyed listening to.

I'm so done with this shit.

* LordSlowpoke puts on a shirt with a dozen different swastikas on it
So a dozen swastikas of varying shapes? Either way you need to buy a visor cap now to go with it.
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When i say "I'm no expert but..." It means "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about but I'm going to try to sound like i do."

Dutchling

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32312 on: February 04, 2014, 06:47:15 am »

Trying to recover my old Hotmail account so I can delete it (it's sending Russian spam to all my contacts).

"Favourite historical figure?"

...

Past me is an idiot and needs to be euthanized -.-'
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Lagslayer

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32313 on: February 04, 2014, 09:58:05 am »

So apparently, a single language that unifies a country is considered racist and must be done away with as a concept. It's not even tumblr I'm getting this from, just a radio host that I previously enjoyed listening to.

I'm so done with this shit.

* LordSlowpoke puts on a shirt with a dozen different swastikas on it
Are you from the US? Because that's a big thing over here. It's like they don't want immigrants to assimilate. How are we supposed to function as a single country if we cannot even communicate?

kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32314 on: February 04, 2014, 10:04:18 am »

Well, we could learn more than 1 language too.

Remember the USA doesn't have an official language. As far as the government goes, it needs to accommodate the people, not the other way around.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Lagslayer

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32315 on: February 04, 2014, 10:10:42 am »

Well, we could learn more than 1 language too.

Remember the USA doesn't have an official language. As far as the government goes, it needs to accommodate the people, not the other way around.
There are a lot of languages in the world. Even if you were to learn 2-3, that's still a lot of people that would not be able to understand you. If you are going to move to another country, the very least you can do is have a passing understanding of the language. I would expect no less of an American intending to move or spend an extended period abroad.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32316 on: February 04, 2014, 10:13:16 am »

So apparently, a single language that unifies a country is considered racist and must be done away with as a concept. It's not even tumblr I'm getting this from, just a radio host that I previously enjoyed listening to.

I'm so done with this shit.

* LordSlowpoke puts on a shirt with a dozen different swastikas on it
Are you from the US? Because that's a big thing over here. It's like they don't want immigrants to assimilate. How are we supposed to function as a single country if we cannot even communicate?

no i'm just looking at immigrant communities in countries such as germany, sweden and england

for every immigrant that does assimilate there seems to be a dozen others who don't give a shit and want to live the same sort of life they did at home in their new country, except better and with more imposing of values on others
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kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32317 on: February 04, 2014, 10:18:25 am »

Are you trying to not sound racist slowpoke? :P

DURN IMMERGANTS

Well, we could learn more than 1 language too.

Remember the USA doesn't have an official language. As far as the government goes, it needs to accommodate the people, not the other way around.
There are a lot of languages in the world. Even if you were to learn 2-3, that's still a lot of people that would not be able to understand you. If you are going to move to another country, the very least you can do is have a passing understanding of the language. I would expect no less of an American intending to move or spend an extended period abroad.
Speaking strictly from a USA standpoint, we don't have the problem of too many languages. Far from it. Most Americans still only know one with a passing understanding of two if they're lucky, and this is a problem.

Anyway, for a long term solution, I've always liked the idea of a universal language everyone is taught (not any language that exists right now; they all suck). If we had something that everyone could use for rudimentary communication, we've pretty much solved the problem. Individual communities could speak/write whatever the hell they want.

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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32318 on: February 04, 2014, 10:19:01 am »

Are you trying to not sound racist slowpoke? :P

DURN IMMERGANTS

i put on a shirt with swastikas on it a couple posts back do you think i would mince words
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Skyrunner

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32319 on: February 04, 2014, 10:20:10 am »

International languages have been tried and failed, though.
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32320 on: February 04, 2014, 10:20:33 am »

Language is also core to people's identity.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32321 on: February 04, 2014, 10:37:05 am »

Are you trying to not sound racist slowpoke? :P

DURN IMMERGANTS

Well, we could learn more than 1 language too.

Remember the USA doesn't have an official language. As far as the government goes, it needs to accommodate the people, not the other way around.
There are a lot of languages in the world. Even if you were to learn 2-3, that's still a lot of people that would not be able to understand you. If you are going to move to another country, the very least you can do is have a passing understanding of the language. I would expect no less of an American intending to move or spend an extended period abroad.
Speaking strictly from a USA standpoint, we don't have the problem of too many languages. Far from it. Most Americans still only know one with a passing understanding of two if they're lucky, and this is a problem.

Anyway, for a long term solution, I've always liked the idea of a universal language everyone is taught (not any language that exists right now; they all suck). If we had something that everyone could use for rudimentary communication, we've pretty much solved the problem. Individual communities could speak/write whatever the hell they want.

What language would you possibly propose? English is already taking up that mantle at the moment, and that's not going to change for several decades at the earliest, it has too much inertia. (Remember how long it took for French to give way). Training everyone to use a "neutral" language would be ridiculously costly, and many people living in the developed world will use it so little that they'll just forget it once they're out of high school (languages take maintenance, and most Americans, at least, just don't interact with foreigners enough that it would be useful; and they're sure not going to be reading any books in the language, especially a "neutral" one with no native literature). The ones that do interact with people who don't speak their native language on a regular basis tend to be Europeans...and the pan-European franca is English, though occasionally German or Russian is used, too.

And languages do not suck. Maybe the geopolitical situation that gives them their prestige does, but it's important to remember that while it's the case that English is no better than a language spoken by a 2000-person tribe in New Guinea, the other way around applies as well. If I had to guess, what you're railing against is the Eurocentrism of most proposals (Esperanto comes to mind). Except that in today's geopolitical climate...so what? Based on a quick visit to Wikipedia, the Americas, Europe and Oceania account for 75% of the world's GDP; their populations all speak, by and large, European languages, and Western European ones at that. (And, for that matter, large swathes of Africa speak English- or French-based creoles as trade languages). So there's no point in using a Swahili-Arabic-Mandarin mishmash as the world language instead. It would create far more problems than it solves. (You also don't really know how linguistic typology works if you want to create something "neutral". Neutral languages do not exist. You could, of course, figure out a lowest-common-denominator system that uses the most commonly used- by population- feature for any given construction. I think this would strike you as unreasonably Eurocentric: Arabic and the IE languages of India have gender systems, as do many languages of Africa, although those aren't very much like the ones found in European languages; subject-verb-object word order is used by the vast majority of the world's population; so is person/number marking on verbs, the great exception being Chinese, and nominative-accusative alignment [although you're likely to have no case marking], with only the IE languages of India having a different system among the most populous languages, and that only in some verb tenses; numbers will come before their nouns, which is natural to almost everyone except most Africans; relative clauses will follow their nouns; the list goes on. Half the world's population speaks an Indo-European language; although there's a great deal of variety in the family, it's silly to throw it out just because speakers of a couple branches of it conquered most of the known earth.)

And who really needs to learn this language, anyways? Western Europeans and Americans have no real reason to learn it (they're using English), and they'll forget it as soon as they're out of school. The only people who know Esperanto these days are weird Esperanto geeks, after all. So it's people living in Asia and Africa...except that they're just going to learn English as soon as they have the education and drive to do so, except the Chinese (but Mandarin's not going to eclipse English within our lifetimes). Most poor regions of the world are highly multilingual; it's not uncommon to find rural villagers in India who haven't had a lick of formal education but speak six languages on a daily basis even so. English is just a drop in the bucket. The world is always going to have an international language. It will always come about naturally, based on whoever is the geopolitical and cultural master of the day, and it may eventually fade. But you can't impose one.

TL;DR: any given proposal would create more problems than it would solve, and the whole thing smacks of some sort of bizarre White Man's Burden, anyways.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 10:49:24 am by FearfulJesuit »
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32322 on: February 04, 2014, 10:54:46 am »

Are you trying to not sound racist slowpoke? :P

DURN IMMERGANTS

i put on a shirt with swastikas on it a couple posts back do you think i would mince words
Ah, I forgot about that. Fair 'nough; resume wearing your nazi shirt and complaining about how immigrants are arrogant and imposing when they won't succumb to cultural imposition.


*stuff*
That's an imposing wall of text. I only read the TLDR version.

There are probably plenty of logistical reasons it wouldn't work. I'll concede it might not be practical and will let someone more knowledgeable than I say why.

I'm amusing you'd call the idea some sort of "white man's burden" though. I'd probably want a large coalition to design it, rather than some euro-centric group.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32323 on: February 04, 2014, 10:58:25 am »

Are you trying to not sound racist slowpoke? :P

DURN IMMERGANTS

i put on a shirt with swastikas on it a couple posts back do you think i would mince words
Ah, I forgot about that. Fair 'nough; resume wearing your nazi shirt and complaining about how immigrants are arrogant and imposing when they won't succumb to cultural imposition.


*stuff*
That's an imposing wall of text. I only read the TLDR version.

There are probably plenty of logistical reasons it wouldn't work. I'll concede it might not be practical and will let someone more knowledgeable than I say why.

I'm amusing you'd call the idea some sort of "white man's burden" though. I'd probably want a large coalition to design it, rather than some euro-centric group.

Ah, then give it a reread. As I point out, any proposal that doesn't look Eurocentric is destined to fail, because most of the world's GDP is in regions that speak European languages, and "Euro-centric" features are often very common outside of Europe, too. If you think we'll all be speaking an Indonesian-Swahili creole in the future, you're in for some hard truths.
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

scriver

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Re: Things that made you RRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: SON OF A BROWSER! Edition
« Reply #32324 on: February 04, 2014, 11:00:31 am »

So apparently, a single language that unifies a country is considered racist and must be done away with as a concept. It's not even tumblr I'm getting this from, just a radio host that I previously enjoyed listening to.

I'm so done with this shit.

* LordSlowpoke puts on a shirt with a dozen different swastikas on it
Are you from the US? Because that's a big thing over here. It's like they don't want immigrants to assimilate. How are we supposed to function as a single country if we cannot even communicate?

no i'm just looking at immigrant communities in countries such as germany, sweden and england

for every immigrant that does assimilate there seems to be a dozen others who don't give a shit and want to live the same sort of life they did at home in their new country, except better and with more imposing of values on others

I suggest you spend some time working with fresh arrivals before you espouse facepalmworthy stereotypes like this. It's far more often the established society doesn't let immigrants into the community than the other way around.

 
Well, we could learn more than 1 language too.

Remember the USA doesn't have an official language. As far as the government goes, it needs to accommodate the people, not the other way around.
There are a lot of languages in the world. Even if you were to learn 2-3, that's still a lot of people that would not be able to understand you. If you are going to move to another country, the very least you can do is have a passing understanding of the language. I would expect no less of an American intending to move or spend an extended period abroad.

Learning a language is best done where it is spoken. Thousands of European youths skip country every year without knowing more than a phrase or two of their new language with the intention of learning it while living there. I wouldn't be surprised if there's whole businesses built around that tradition, that's how common it is.

Besides, it's not like a lot of immigrants had time to learn a language before their circumstances became pressing enough that emigration became an option. "Oh look they're bombing the shit out of my country and farm welp I guess I'd better pay to study a language for three years to learn a quarter of what I would have learned in one year on site. Hope I end up in a country where they speak that one language I learned in the dozens of countries I could end up in!"
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Love, scriver~
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