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[AlleeCat]

Who decides what is proper English and what isn't?

For example, it was the most proper English--the standard, for a long time--to refer to a woman as Mrs. John Smith and entirely remove her name.  People began to change what they were doing and now this is not so common.  The language has become more gender-neutral.

Are You Saying I Could Write A Paper Entirely Like This And Everything Would Be Okay?

[kaijyuu]

I can see the word "indigenous" being used essentially as a proper noun referring to a specific group of people, but only if the user was too goddamn lazy or racist to know the group's actual name.

[Vector]

I'm saying that writing is political and the capitalization or lack thereof of "indigenous" is not a random choice.

[Jopax]

Internet, my internet to be specific, the utterly shitty kind. The one that doesn't let you have three conversations on FB at the same time because the fucker can't hold it. So you end up not sending certain things, sending them multiple times or randomly firing them off into the conversation. In the end I have to apologise for that shit to the other person, but once again, I'm not sure what, if anything reached them >:@

[aenri]

Because using "indigenous" as a proper collective noun recognizes the collective experience of indigenous peoples in reference to colonialism.  That's what they're playing on--what once just meant "the people living here" has come to gain a group identity through common experiences of oppression.  Hence a collective proper noun, like you would for any culture forged of group experience.  It is a political decision, and I'm sure I'm explaining this badly but I can't find any references from an actual scholar of the subject at the moment.

Or you know it could have been a mistake and they just want to frame the teacher for doing his job.

[Helgoland]

I'm saying that writing is political and the capitalization or lack thereof of "indigenous" is not a random choice.

Yeah, but in a non-heated environment they'd have talked about it and a) the prof would have ignored it or b) the student in question would have stopped doing that. One of the most important things I've learned in my history lessons is the distinction between cause and occasion, and that distinction is important here as well: The cause of their troubles was definitely not the improper spelling of that word.

[nenjin]

I see both sides of the issue here.

I agree with Vector on the potential legitimacy of capitalizing that word. And possibly so does the American Psychological Association:

Rust also insisted on Chicago Manual of Style form in research papers, even though some in the group wanted to use American Psychological Association style, in line with their more social science-oriented research.

I don't know if the APA actually advises capitalization of that word to recognize their status as a cultural group with a shared experience of oppression. But it's probably likely. Style books are a thing that matter to teachers, and I can easily see a disagreement of that nature being conflated to an unfair or biased grading policy.

Seriously. Follow the link in the original article, it's got actual context. Rise above the level of the mob reader of comments.

Maybe it's because I took a bit of Sociology in college and worked in a Sociological Research outfit on campus that I get where this argument comes from. I also nearly majored in English, and while my use of the language is pretty flimsy, I don't fault the teacher involved for adhering to what is a commonly recognized punctuation standard. It's about which interpretation you choose to grade against.

I disagree with Vector it's racially motivated in its application, at least based on what I've read. (Again, read the second article. Guy has at least one advocate of color who thinks this whole thing is pretty damn stupid.) Again, this is a question of malice. You can also say it's a question of the system of education in California and its cultural roots that underpin its current values. What everyone really wants to know is "is this incident a symptom of a larger pattern of discrimination in California higher education." And so far, no one in that pair of articles cites any data to that question. It's all anecdotal.

I'm not saying the teacher wasn't like "Look at Miriam X over there capitalizing indigenous. Well, I'll show her." But it's not the kind of thing you can assert without proof, and actual data to corroborate the claim.

Fun fact: the forum spellchecker puts indigenous in lower case.

[Vector]

Ah: I'm not trying to say that the professor was doing something racially motivated.  What I'm trying to say is that the students were not just randomly flipping their shit when they committed that "error," since a lot of the comments seem to think that they must've been stupid, uneducated, lazy, etc. and capitalizing randomly.  I also think that if the students were white, the teacher would be more likely to believe in the APA argument.  That's where it becomes racially motivated--it's a subtle thing that really can't be legislated, which is why this situation sucks so fucking much.

My guess is that there were a lot of interactions that we didn't end up hearing about, which would tilt the context for that particular argument one way or another.

Anyway, Nenjin, I agree with you.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I also think that if the students were white, the teacher would be more likely to believe in the APA argument.  That's where it becomes racially motivated--it's a subtle thing that really can't be legislated, which is why this situation sucks so fucking much.

Believe? Come on Vector, it doesn't have anything to do with belief. If a professor wants assignments in Chicago, then they get Chicago. What the students are familiar with has no bearing whatsoever.

[Vector]

It says them's the rules, but honestly, I know a hell of a lot of smooth-talkers.  Some professors will stand firm, and some will let themselves be argued with "for the right person."

[nenjin]

What I'm trying to say is that the students were not just randomly flipping their shit when they committed that "error," since a lot of the comments seem to think that they must've been stupid, uneducated, lazy, etc. and capitalizing randomly.

I hate to phrase it like this, but I don't really consider 90% of comments on news articles to reflect an opinion I care about. Douches are out there, always going to be out there. It's better to redirect that energy toward solvable problems.

I also think that if the students were white, the teacher would be more likely to believe in the APA argument.  That's where it becomes racially motivated--it's a subtle thing that really can't be legislated, which is why this situation sucks so fucking much.

It's also an thing that you can't prove, unless you go through all his term papers and the identities of the students to figure out. And I mean, really. In California? That's what makes this situation both funny and kind of stupid. The most liberal place in America gets called out for secret racism? Again, you can argue institutional racism is still a thing even in California higher education. (Definitely not going to argue racism is still a thing in general in California, because it is.) But UCLA?

[Vector]

It was definitely a thing in Berkeley, where I spent my undergraduate career.  Also open misogyny, including among the tenured professors and staff of certain departments.

[Dutchling]

Your profs do more than giving lectures and preparing exams? Strange world you guys live in.

[nenjin]

It was definitely a thing in Berkeley, where I spent my undergraduate career.  Also open misogyny, including among the tenured professors and staff of certain departments.

Well if you've got first hand experience that the system is corrupt, then yeah, that's something a sit in should bring protest to. But did they crucify this professor over an issue he's not guilty of committing? Because one of his peers seems to feel that way.

[misko27]

I'm saying that writing is political and the capitalization or lack thereof of "indigenous" is not a random choice.

Not necessarily. Good writing is careful. Bad writing can be random strings of words, with no relation to the previous one in anything but the most superficial sense. And it is easy to claim profundity in retrospect.

I can imagine both sides. With not enough substantial evidence to prove to the contrary, I must assume the professor is innocent. I certainly sympathize with their efforts to reduce racism in their campus, but this professor does not deserve to be pilloried for something like this. Especially for something academic in nature, The chance of they themselves acting unjustly against an innocent man is too high.