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[Descan]

>Burn everything.

[Vector]

Goodness gracious.

I don’t think public schools should teach kids about abstinence. I don’t think they should teach kids about condoms. I don’t think they should teach kids about birth control pills, or virginity pledges, or sex before marriage, or sex after marriage.

[wierd]

I dunno. I have some mixed feelings.

It is one thing to point out that condoms exist, IUDs exist, Birth control pills exist, and what each and all of them are for, and why we have them.

It's kinda another to have demonstrations on how to put them on.

There does come a point where more is not better. Awareness and education are one thing-- open encouragement to have sex is another.

And don't try the crap on me about how hormones override people's brains. We teach them about birth control because they have brains, and do think. If you believe they will just do it anyway, you have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

[Putnam]

Goodness gracious.

I don’t think public schools should teach kids about abstinence. I don’t think they should teach kids about condoms. I don’t think they should teach kids about birth control pills, or virginity pledges, or sex before marriage, or sex after marriage.

Oh my. That's Grade-A stupid.

Also, I just posted on GameFAQs as if it was the Bethesda Softworks Elder Scrolls Lore forums and almost immediately realized how foolish it was. Now I'm going to make a gimmick out of it, so I guess it'll be fun.

I dunno. I have some mixed feelings.

It is one thing to point out that condoms exist, IUDs exist, Birth control pills exist, and what each and all of them are for, and why we have them.

It's kinda another to have demonstrations on how to put them on.

There does come a point where more is not better. Awareness and education are one thing-- open encouragement to have sex is another.

And don't try the crap on me about how hormones override people's brains. We teach them about birth control because they have brains, and do think. If you believe they will just do it anyway, you have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

We were taught literally nothing but abstinence, nothing about sex, nothing about condoms, nothing about methods, and yet I still know personally no less than 4 women who got pregnant before the end of high school. I think we need more condom education.

[wierd]

That's like saying inserting a tampon wrong increases your chances of having a septisemic reaction.

There are instructions that come with the package. I realize that illiteracy is a big problem these days, but putting a condom on wrong is like putting a tampon in wrong. If you are doing it wrong, its because you aren't good at reading directions on the box. You probably have problems choosing an effective dose for tylenol too.

[Vector]

I went to school in super-liberal California and the vast, vast majority of my sex ed is still through the internet and word of mouth.  My sex ed from my parents was pretty much "don't" and a severely outdated books on the subject quietly added to my bookshelf.

Even in places with comprehensive sex ed programs (again, California) they rarely tell you about things like the side effects of hormonal birth control on women... and they never said a damn thing about abortions, emergency contraception, stuff like that.

Actually, if you don't put on a condom correctly, the odds of it breaking are increased a fair bit.

I'm not on about 'Apply knife to condom to make it work'

Proper usage: 98% effective, Improper usage: 85% effective.  Yeah, people need to know, and how it's used is not exactly obvious.

That's like saying inserting a tampon wrong increases your chances of having a septisemic reaction.

There are instructions that come with the package. I realize that illiteracy is a big problem these days, but putting a condom on wrong is like putting a tampon in wrong. If you are doing it wrong, its because you aren't good at reading directions on the box. You probably have problems choosing an effective dose for tylenol too.

The box doesn't say anything about how to put in a tampon easily and without hurting yourself, what it feels like when you're going to need to change it, or any of those things.  Those are all things you have to learn through practice.

[Caz]

I don't think schools should educate people.

[Bauglir]

Also, a very minor quibble added to the more significant ones, but the free condoms offered in various places at literally every university I've been to do not come in a box, or have instructions printed on them. Point being, it's possible to get the little guys without having access to the instructions anyway, and the ways you can do so tend to be very well-suited to spur-of-the-moment, "Well, what if I get laid?" situations. This is a great way to approach people who are bad at planning, which is to say the demographic we're talking about >________>

[alway]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#Lack_of_contraception

In a 2012 study, over 1,000 females were surveyed to find out factors contributing to not using contraception. Of those surveyed, almost half had been involved in unprotected sex within the previous three months. These women gave three main reasons for not using contraceptives: trouble obtaining birth control (the most frequent reason), lack of intention to have sex, and the misconception that they "could not get pregnant."

In a study for The Guttmacher Institute, researchers found that from a comparative perspective, however, teenage pregnancy rates in the United States are less nuanced than one might initially assume. “Since timing and levels of sexual activity are quite similar across [Sweden, France, Canada, Great Britain, and the U.S.], the high U.S. rates arise primarily because of less, and possibly less-effective, contraceptive use by sexually active teenagers.”[68] Thus, the cause for the discrepancy between rich nations can be traced largely to contraceptive-based issues.

And, yeah, our sex-ed wasn't more than a couple paragraphs long; and it wasn't done until highschool. No surprise, we beat out much larger highschools around us in terms of the number of teen pregnancies.

[wierd]

Wow, Kansas (land of intelligent design science classes) must have some very liberal sex ed laws then.

We had not just one year of very comprehensive sex ed, but had it every year after 6th grade.

I can rattle off the many different kinds and types of IUD there are, what their complications are, and things of that nature-- and yes, demonstrations on how to apply a condom using a surrogate phallus model.  Maybe my school was particulary liberal or something- but I see exactly how the guy in the blog can have an "enough is enough" view.  There does come a point where sex ed becomes a "how to have sex" exercise.

also, birth control pills require pharmacist consult, which goes into nitty gritty detail about exactly what side effects they have. (Sister used to work in a pharmacy.) I agree that those should be addressed when telling kids about birth control.

I feel more emphasis should be given about what happens when birth control fails, over how effective they are though. I observed first hand how many of my fellow students failed to understand that using two 90% effective measures does NOT mean 180% effective protection.

Kids need to know what those percentages really mean, know that there is no such thing as 100% effective control, and that things like abortion come with non-zero risks to their reproductive health.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I have met people who honestly believe that drinking Mountain Dew drops your sperm count below the threshold for pregnancy. This country needs a lot more sex ed.

Also, I disagree utterly with this "well, we need to not encourage them" thing. Like we have to go around educating minors to keep them safe while still telling them that sex is something they should not do because it's evil. Once you've reached the age of consent, it's in your hands and it is just silly to pretend like it is not. Sex is something people do once they've reached sexual maturity, and if you expect to create a healthy society that has to be recognized. People do not just "know" how to have sex correctly. That means, that even if it makes you uncomfortable, they have to be told if you expect them not to make mistakes. Currently, our society expects people not to mess up while telling them next to nothing, and then lambasts them when they mess up. Can you imagine that standard applied to anything else?

[Caz]

I don't think schools should educate people.

Pfft. Education rots the brain.

^5

[Bauglir]

Can you imagine that standard applied to anything else?

I can, and they're all stupid.

"How stupid are you for falling for that phishing email!?"

"How hard is it to stay out of debt?"

"It's not hard, just get a job!"

[nenjin]

Consider where that poster came from.

Kansas.

A Bastion of Progressive Thinking In America.

I know he says it doesn't matter what they're teaching, but that picture sent him off on a tirade. And it's likely coming from a place of the evils of sexuality and what good people don't do.

That's not what a majority of public schools teach. Granted, he has a point when he says sometimes teachers aren't anymore qualified to talk about sex to kids than "bad" parents, and it's creepy. But I don't consider knowledge something sacred to parenthood. There's a difference between imparting facts and imparting values, I don't agree with him that the two are inseparable. As a kid when I heard something in school I needed help with, I asked my parents, be it homework or religion or sex. Frankly, we need schools out there to combat the range of awful things parents can teach their kids in the name of passing on their world view. Kids are entitled to the facts from all sides, not just the ones their parents are comfortable with. That's how they join the rest of the world as normal people, by not having viewpoints fed to them either by teachers or parents, but facts.

I think this a prime example of people being fed up with a situation and just picking the thermonuclear option because "fuck it, soooooo outraged!"

[wierd]

I am not saying "kids shouldn't be told! Sex is a dirty thing of the devil! OF THE DEVIL!", that's straight ups retarded.

I am saying that like any good medicine, there comes a point where more is not better.

I am not saying kids won't have reproductive urges, and want to act on them. I am saying that giving them a message consisting of "we have many wonderful options to avoid those yucky pregnancies you've heard about! Here they are, and how to do them!" Is unhealthy.

A message more in line with "pregnancy early in life has a significant impact on how successful and independent you will be afterwards, and also on how healthy you will be later in life.  Birth control exists, but is not 100% effective. Every time you have sex, you risk pregnancy and contracting STDs, and while every effort is made to ensure that abortion is safe, it too is not 100% so, and can and does result in permanent complications, including those that can only be solved with an emergency hysterectomy-- the surgical removal of the uterus-- in a small but significant number of cases.  It is important to know that misuse of contraceptives such as condoms and birth control can dramatically reduce their effectiveness, increasing your chances of contracting an STD or becoming pregnant. The best option that you have to stay healthy is to avoid sexual contact. If you decide to ignore that sound advice, it is important that you know just what exactly it is you are risking, and what your options are."


Naturally, this latter one requires a pretty comprehensive sexual education package, and is what I advocate.

But going above and beyond that does not really help.