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[Helgoland]

We're working on that one, I think.

Yup. I'd be terribly surprised if we didn't have the capability to do so fairly easily in my lifetime (say, within next 30-40 years), if not necessarily the ready infrastructure et al to do it. Last I looked at it, we were already pretty close a few years back. The parts of medical science not in a corporate circle jerk reinventing the same pills are doing some pretty impressive stuff, really...

Couldn't we just transplant a uterus into a (trans)man's body? We're doing the same with other organs, after all.

[wierd]

The hormones needed to sustain gestation after the first trimester would make the man grow great big titties, and would probably make him sterile.

Though, in the case of a transsexual, you would need more than just the uterus to have those hormones unless the prospective .. mother.. was receiving the hormones intravenously and at regular intervals.

The fetus only produces progesterone and pals during the first few weeks at levels suitable enough to sustain the pregnancy. After that, it relies on the woman's body to produce sufficient quantities.

[Ogdibus]

We're working on that one, I think.

Yup. I'd be terribly surprised if we didn't have the capability to do so fairly easily in my lifetime (say, within next 30-40 years), if not necessarily the ready infrastructure et al to do it. Last I looked at it, we were already pretty close a few years back. The parts of medical science not in a corporate circle jerk reinventing the same pills are doing some pretty impressive stuff, really...

Couldn't we just transplant a uterus into a (trans)man's body? We're doing the same with other organs, after all.

There's only been one successful uterus transplant, last year, in Turkey, with a female recipient, I think.  I'm sure I'm not the only person without a working uterus that wants one.



Regarding the influence of GTA on people, don't forget that people/culture influenced the making of GTA.  It's a reflection of a part of our culture, and it probably has a greater influence on people that buy into that part the culture already.   The influence isn't going to be as dramatic as car theft, but it will affect attitudes.  Maybe you could think of it as an object that is radioactive at safe levels, but it's in a radio very radioactive environment, contributing to the radiation level.

[wierd]

I remember reading this. (Strangely enough, I actually really WANT artificially grown uterine transplants for the masses, because it would break one of the very big and in my opinion, very toxic, assertions about gender-- specifically, that women hold all the keys to motherhood. I VERY much want to see that not be the case.)

IIRC, the uterus that was transplanted came from a close relative. It underwent several menstrual cycles, but ultimately succumbed to tissue rejection.

I recall that it was a "Controversial" surgery, because in many professional's opinions it was not a "Necessary" surgery (In that it was not needed to save a life)  and that it was therefore unnecessarily invasive as an operation.

Most likely, I think the practitioners were more afraid of malpractice, and possibly a dangerous rash of people demanding such invasive elective surgery.

However, recently there has been considerable work with creating wholly artificially cultured organs from harvested and cultured IPS cells, including a manmade heart that beats, and IIRC, a kidney.

A transwoman will need more than just a uterus to sustain a viable pregnancy unaided (EG, not propped up on a small pharmacy), which means production of functional gonad tissues to produce those hormones.

EG, not just a uterus-- but also cervix, uterine horns, and ovaries. (Yes, cervix plays a significant role in the safe delivery of the fetus. the mucous it produces is very important to protecting the uterine environment from the microbes that naturally live in the vaginal tract.)

In the next 50 years, we may well be there. But not right just yet. Transwomen of the future rejoice-- Transwomen of the present? Keep the pressure on.

[misko27]

I think the idea is also that you don't have to make one "better" than the other. Sexism just requires ascribing to the idea that sex is a sufficient determinant of the roles somebody will play in society, I think.

'Being male shouldn't hamper my ability to birth children.' -_-

Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Stan: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

[Hanslanda]

I think the idea is also that you don't have to make one "better" than the other. Sexism just requires ascribing to the idea that sex is a sufficient determinant of the roles somebody will play in society, I think.

'Being male shouldn't hamper my ability to birth children.' -_-

We're working on that one, I think.

On a side note, research has shown that GTA and other such over the top games have surprisingly little effect on behavior of human beings, because they're so over the top. Which, supposedly, makes it harder to relate and adopt said behavior. More realistic depictions can have a far larger influence.

As someone who has grown up killing nigh-infinite amounts of gangbangers, coke smugglers, thugs, cheating spouses, and various other GTA characters, I can tell you that I often laugh at how ridiculous GTA's legal system is. "Oh, we caught him with drugs. SHOOT HIM." "Oh he ran. SHOOT HIM." "Oh, he killed five hundred cops with a missile launcher and a minigun. TRY TO ARREST HIM."

[wierd]

Strangely enough, "Keeping in a box" could well become an option.

To produce a 100% tissue matched uterus, the uterus is going to have to be produced using something like a tissue printer. That happens OUTSIDE the body, basically in a box.

If the box is enhanced to sustain the printed organs from the donor's tissues, you have created a fully artificial womb, and dont need the man to sustain the pregnancy if he does not wish it implanted.

There could be some ethical or philosphical questions with such a development, but that's for the future to decide.

[kaijyuu]

There could be some ethical or philosphical questions with such a development, but that's for the future to decide.

I can't think of any except stupid ones like "it's not natural!" from the morons of the world.

Presumably there will still be a sperm and an egg donor, so there might be concerns of consent from both parties, but we already have fixed similar issues with artificial insemination.

[misko27]

I think the idea is also that you don't have to make one "better" than the other. Sexism just requires ascribing to the idea that sex is a sufficient determinant of the roles somebody will play in society, I think.

'Being male shouldn't hamper my ability to birth children.' -_-

We're working on that one, I think.

On a side note, research has shown that GTA and other such over the top games have surprisingly little effect on behavior of human beings, because they're so over the top. Which, supposedly, makes it harder to relate and adopt said behavior. More realistic depictions can have a far larger influence.

As someone who has grown up killing nigh-infinite amounts of gangbangers, coke smugglers, thugs, cheating spouses, and various other GTA characters, I can tell you that I often laugh at how ridiculous GTA's legal system is. "Oh, we caught him with drugs. SHOOT HIM." "Oh he ran. SHOOT HIM." "Oh, he killed five hundred cops with a missile launcher and a minigun. TRY TO ARREST HIM."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/liberty-city-police-face-allegations-of-incompeten,2465/

[wierd]

I was referring to the "Lack of emotional bonding" that would accompany NOT being bombarded by baby's hormones during gestation.

There's a reason why women experience post pardum depression.

With a man desiring a baby, that does not experience this first hand, and instead chooses to keep baby developing in a metal tank instead--- when baby is ready to come out, he may not really be.. erhm... "Ready" for baby.

That could present a significant philosophical or ethical quandary.

[kaijyuu]

I see nothing there that wouldn't affect adoptive parents just as much, and they are no way inferior to blood related parents.

[misko27]

There could be some ethical or philosphical questions with such a development, but that's for the future to decide.

I can't think of any except stupid ones like "it's not natural!" from the morons of the world.

Presumably there will still be a sperm and an egg donor, so there might be concerns of consent from both parties, but we already have fixed similar issues with artificial insemination.

You'd like to think that wouldn't you? Example: Without any physical limitations slowing you down, you could have hundreds of children. In fact, should you wish and be particular wealthy or have the resources, you can grow even more. And, given advances in gene technology, it stands to reason you could simply make clones of yourself. Your personal clone army. Or you know, whatever you feel like. They're your children after all.

And the whole abortion thing just becomes so much more difficult; a child in a machine can't be considered the same entity as their parent (aborting wouldn't be a right of a person to choose about their body, a robot is no one's body). so any actions you take are in fact killing a human creature; no two ways about it. The specific point where a child goes from "Cells" to "thing" becomes relevant. The question of responsibility over the child is much more complicated. In terms of hormones, wierd isn't wrong: There are very, very significant differences between a woman who had an actual pregnancy versus a artificial: Firstly things like milk.

Wikipedia goes on to say:

The artificial uterus has important implications for reproductive rights and the abortion debate. Artificial uteri may expand the range of fetal viability, raising questions about the role that fetal viability plays within abortion law. Within severance theory, for example, abortion rights only include the right to remove the fetus and do not extend to terminate the life of the fetus. If a fetus is recognized as a person, and transferring the fetus from a woman's womb to an artificial uterus is possible, the choice to terminate a pregnancy may not necessitate the termination of the fetus.

It's not "The ignorant are just trying to take away my SCIENCE". This is a hard topic. You are creating lives; lives have rights.

[wierd]

Adoptive parents don't CREATE the baby though. The baby already exists, independent of the desire to have that child.

I am looking at it from the "Not all is sunshine and roses" perspective.

Say for instance, a homosexual male couple that desires a baby. The dominant partner provides a sperm sample, the erhm.. supportive?.. partner supplies a tissue sample that has the Y chromosome removed and the X chromosome duplicated, subjected to a hormone bath and cultivated into "Bio ink", and has a full female reproductive system generated artificially to facilitate the gestation.

That's all fine and good.

Except, in this case, Dominant partner is a cheating SOB that sleeps with everything that has 2 legs and a penis-- and supportive partner decides that they want noting whatsoever to do with that partner. AT ALL.

Yet-- Bun is in the oven, baking to a nice golden tan.

We now have a very twisted version of the abortion dilemma. The baby is NOT inside either of the men's bodies, so sanctity of the parent's body is NOT on the table.

This is just ONE possible outcome of such technology being available.

[Vector]

Right, and women who become pregnant by accident but do not want to either carry to term, raise, or have their genetic material become a child may be kind of stuck because it would be viable from conception or whatever.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Right, and women who become pregnant by accident but do not want to either carry to term, raise, or have their genetic material become a child may be kind of stuck because it would be viable from conception or whatever.

The good news on this front is that by the time we become Sufficiently Advanced enough for full exowombs, more advanced contraception should have eliminated unwanted pregnancy wholesale.