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[AlleeCat]

I know this is the rage thread but we're getting awfully hateful in here. It's one thing to vent, it seems like another to take satisfaction in wrecking another person's day. Even if they're being dicks, they're only dicks because they don't care about you, so what does that make you when you do care about making them feel like shit?

This. This is the angry thread not the cathartic retribution thread.

[Avis-Mergulus]

I know this is the rage thread but we're getting awfully hateful in here. It's one thing to vent, it seems like another to take satisfaction in wrecking another person's day. Even if they're being dicks, they're only dicks because they don't care about you, so what does that make you when you do care about making them feel like shit?

I don't really see what exactly you are talking about. The current discussion resulted from Stuebi's complaint about having his day wrecked by some wreckedy-ass kid - it didn't involve him purposefully ruining someone else's day.
If you mean the general tone of the discussion - maybe. I don't come here a lot.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I'm not trying to wreck anyone's day. But let's face it - a parent never hears this stuff but I guarantee you a large number of people around them are thinking it.

One thread on one message board on the whole internet, which is specifically labeled as a place to vent frustration, is not the place for fainthearted lilies.

Nobody's making a personal attack. And any person can jump in and claim that they feel personally insulted by literally any thing in the world. Because of all of these reasons, a person reading the thread and willfully taking on the holy mantle of someone who is indirectly insulted should not be surprised if their Very Important Feelings are not taken into account by everyone as a matter of course.

Besides, I'm not parent-bashing, or child-bashing. I'm talking about the shitty ones. A person who feels I'm talking about them is, by default, agreeing that they are a shitty parent and/or have a shitty child. Otherwise there'd be no reason to be insulted, right? 

[Octobomb]

I am very insulted, I'll have you know! I worked hard to read your venting, I'll have you know I feel it was an excellent read and as the token fainthearted lillie I find it very traumatising. How dare you insult the bad parents! Respect thine elders! Blah blah blah! Cease and desist at once! For I am a mighty moral guardian and my Very Important Feelings are currently feeling slightly scorched!

[LeoLeonardoIII]

OK I am completely sorry and I take back everything I have ever said. 

[Bauglir]

Yeah, Stuebi definitely did have a run-in with a shitty parent who should've done a better job of keeping her child from breaking other people's things. Being frustrated by this is entirely reasonable, and in general it's reasonable to be frustrated by people who feel they're entitled to extra respect and approval by virtue of having made a child (as opposed to successfully raising a child to be a good adult, which is worth commendation). Those people are dicks. Nobody took action to ruin somebody else's day, either, which is good.

I was commenting on the idea that these people deserve whatever comeuppance you can hurl their way. You've got legitimate grievances, don't get me wrong, but it seems to me like you're getting caught up in talking about how much better you are than them, which you may recognize as the thinking they use to dismiss the opinions of the childless. Trust me, the woman you exaggerate as asking about a 3rd trimester abortion exaggerates you as a useless layabout with no sense of responsibility, and you're both wrong. The parent is the one who fucked up, absolutely, but the ranting's gone beyond talking about how frustrating their fuckup is to how shitty a person they are, so that's apparently not relevant anymore.

I don't want anybody to stop posting here, I'm just hoping that we can show some jerks the compassion that they lack, thereby avoiding becoming jerks ourselves. Or at least think about it before concluding that they're such willful jerks that they've given that up. Please, keep posting. Your rants are good reading, and you've made clear that they're cathartic for you! This is a critique, at best, not an attempt at censorship.

EDIT: And I do apologize if it feels like I'm shutting down somebody's rage. That's not what this thread is for. Needing a place to vent is a-ok, and this ought to be a safe space for that. If this post directly conflicts with your ability to get your thoughts down in text, then disregard it. It's less important in this thread.

[Shakerag]

Nobody's making a personal attack. And any person can jump in and claim that they feel personally insulted by literally any thing in the world. Because of all of these reasons, a person reading the thread and willfully taking on the holy mantle of someone who is indirectly insulted should not be surprised if their Very Important Feelings are not taken into account by everyone as a matter of course.

I love you.

[Bauglir]

Also note that I give not one shit about causing offense in this case. Despite what it might look like, I'm not talking about how the person who's upset you feels, I'm talking about how you are behaving. Again, this shouldn't get in the way of expressing yourself, so ignore me if that's the case. I'm voicing my take on the situation, just as you are.

[Avis-Mergulus]

I think I see, yes. The general idea is that all this complaining solves nothing and isn't very original and is, therefore, wankery. That is true for a given definition of true, however, one might argue that even having a separate thread just for raging is also slightly wankish. If we were doing things the right way, this tread would be called the love-thy-enemies thread.
The thing is, the stereotyping that you mention ("third-trimester abortion" etc.) is, however unfortunate, just garnish. Leo's point is that it is wrong to behave as if everybody else is socially-responsible for other people's children. He delivers argumentation towards this point. All the bits where he frothes at the mouth are just the trademark style. Of course, that excuse can be used to justify a lot of things, but I stand by my assertion that this discussion is not devoid of substance, and is not, therefore, pointless wankragery.
But I may be entirely wrong. That happens to me all the time.

Nobody's making a personal attack. And any person can jump in and claim that they feel personally insulted by literally any thing in the world. Because of all of these reasons, a person reading the thread and willfully taking on the holy mantle of someone who is indirectly insulted should not be surprised if their Very Important Feelings are not taken into account by everyone as a matter of course.

I love you.

Woo, shipping material.

Edit: grammer, lulz

[Redzephyr01]

And now Bogleech is posting long rants about how "ALL GAMERS ARE MYSOGINISTS HERP DERP".
Just when I thought he couldn't get any stupider, he somehow managed to get even worse.

[kisame12794]

Whenever you think someone has hit slade, they mod the raws and keep going.

[Bauglir]

I mean, yeah, again, everyone here on this subject absolutely has valid things to rage about, and this being a rage thread means I can't give a single shit about whether or not it accomplishes anything*. Style isn't really a huge deal here, or to me in general (also it wasn't Leo who said that one, IIRC, I just picked it as a good example because I'm regarding the Kids Suck crowd as a more-or-less monolithic whole at the moment; regardless of who said what, you all seem to be on the same wavelength).

I'm basically saying that, even though they're self-righteous dicks, you're getting dangerously close to being the same sort of dick, but malicious instead of merely incompetent. If you're aware of that and don't care, whatever - there's nothing I can say or do to change your mind, in that case, so I won't wreck the thread trying. Much as I respect the point of this thread, though, I feel like occasionally I need to say something like this to keep it from becoming a wrathful echo chamber.

*Without collapsing into a black hole of hypocrisy, anyway, and the doctors say I shouldn't do that any more lest I get stuck on that side of the Moral Event Horizon

[Avis-Mergulus]

I'm basically saying that, even though they're self-righteous dicks, you're getting dangerously close to being the same sort of dick, but malicious instead of merely incompetent.

I agree with you in general, but I just can't wrap my head around this statement. How are we being more malicious than the targets of our ranting, if we're doing essentially the same thing they do - reacting to the things that piss us off? Besides, dickery is more a matter of action than of intent - we don't really go and inconvenience anyone with our non-kid-having ways. Our ranting is strictly theoretical.
I just don't see what is malicious about all this, except for the tone. But then, I do a lot of pretty evil shit just by accident.

[Karkov]

I'm basically saying that, even though they're self-righteous dicks, you're getting dangerously close to being the same sort of dick, but malicious instead of merely incompetent.

-snip-

I'm basically with Avis on this one.  There are parents who are shitty because they're new (but usually they learn and get better), and then there's shitty parenting through sheer ignorance.  I can understand about being fed up with parents who are ignorant, because they don't care what's best for the actual kid and the kid acts like a spoiled brat when they're out in public (usually), and they expect to be praised that they had/are raising said brat without actually putting any effort into the discipline or education of the kid.  Being some guy on the internet with an opinion and no social barriers is something entirely different.

Leo's fed up with tiny kids either not knowing better or just being obnoxious to be obnoxious, while the parents do nothing and expect to be praised for it.  It's a totally valid viewpoint and I agree with him on it; the airplane thing may have been a bit much, but then again I don't fly as much as he does (probably).

EDIT:  Reconstructed that sentence, realized it sounded really weird there for a couple of moments.

[Bauglir]

Well, basically, they're fucking with you guys through incompetence. The parent didn't have the intent of wrecking Stuebi's things by proxy (or upsetting people on airplanes or whatever), and they're inconsiderate enough to think that excuses them. You guys have the option of leaving it at that and complaining about how they fucked up, or doing what you're doing and complaining about how shitty a person these people are. There's a difference between "This guy sure is shitty" as part of a general vent about how they fucked up your day, and a multi-person circle of multi-paragraph posts about how shitty somebody is, with what they actually did as a tangential addition to that.

That their hurt to you is real does make their behavior worse in magnitude, make no mistake. Hypothetically, if somebody does react as the tone in the thread suggests they'd like to, then I'd have to say that at least the parent didn't set out with the intent to hurt somebody.

I'm trying to keep that scenario from actually happening - it's a similar effect to casually making a racist joke in company where nobody's victimized by it. The joke never hurt anybody and wasn't intended to. It's pretty innocent. But when everyone laughs, it makes the listeners more inclined to think of racism as a reasonable perspective, if not consciously, and more likely to actually go be racist in some other context without realizing it. Just calling things like that out is something I try to do now and again, lest we wind up with what I keep calling an echo chamber.

Anyway, I don't think I can really explain myself any more thoroughly than this, so I'm gonna call it quits. You can certainly feel free to argue against what I'm saying, because I doubt my ideas are perfect and I welcome the criticism, but I just have nothing else that I feel like I can contribute. Thanks for the dialogue!