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[lue]

How has this not been thrown out yet, when the argument is so simple? (sorry for the pseudo-logic talk here, and yeah it could use some touch-ups before being logically sound.)

the answer:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Indeed.

I've never heard of a case even being tried (in the judicial and common sense of the word), so I suppose I should've reworded that a bit. That's what strikes me.

[smirk]

heres a thing too that tips are considered an income and is taxed higher so tips are actually expected in our society and the government does acknowledge it.

Ooh yeah, forgot about that; thanks!
*Ahem*
Always tip in cash, folks. That way your serverperson can just stick it in their pocket and not worry about part of it vanishing to tax. A bit underhanded, yes, but like Hanslanda said: people working for tips generally need it.

[Stuebi]

It may be a bit strange to post for the first time _just_ because i think it's a interesting topic, but i've been "just reading" for far too long! Forgive me.

Over here in switzerland you get pretty decent pay even for stuff like Pizza delivery. Still, its pretty much common to tip people that provide certain services (Mainly in restaurants and for delivery), and not giving a tip is pretty much the customers way of telling you he wasnt satisfied with your service. However, i must admit, i dont like if the guy or gal in question expects a > 10% tip if he _just_ does his job, or even does it badly, and then still pulls the "You're an ass for not tiping"-shtick. As a techie my job is fixing problems for people who mostly caused these problems themselves, and then complain and yell that its somehow _still_ my fault. And i never got a tip in my whole carrier. (And yes, it includes driving pretty long distances from time to time) So usually, i expect at least a good attitude and being polite before i get out my change. Exception being if the weather sucks (I usually offer a bigger tip and coffee, especially since winter over here is literally a frozen hell).

An example and also RAGE to stay on topic:

I ordered a Pizza this weekend, after getting home from working late. I specifically asked the dude how long it would take (the promotion guruanteed delivery within certain timeframe, based on where you live. Mine siad 30 minutes), he confirmed again it would be within those 30 minutes. Fine, i thought, 30 minutes are bearable, right? I left the guy my number in case he couldnt find my flat.

It took the guy SIXTY minutes to show up at my door, an angry look on his face.
"Couldnt find it! Why were you so unspecific..."
"What about calling, you drove around here for 45 minutes without thinking of that?"
"Forgot my phone."
"Well then its kinda your own fault, right?"
"Its not my fault that you live in a hole like this."

Well, aint that a prime example of good service? I took the Pizza for free, and overheard him muttering something about "@$$hole." Yeah man. This is CLEARLY all my fault. Absolutely.

[Aptus]

Weee, I think I may have bricked the hard drive on my laptop.

Decided to go back to Mint from Arch Linux (don't use the laptop enough to keep up with the rolling releases.) and just went along with the automatic installation since I wanted to use the entire disk for Mint anyways. Ticked the options to encrypt, entered my passphrase etc and after installation completed and I rebooted, instead of getting to the prompt for my crypto passphrase I get stuck on the BIOS screen, can't even enter the bios setup or anything. And the kicker, I can't even boot into the installation media (usb) anymore either.

My guess is the mint installer decided to encrypt the boot partition as well or something like that which makes me question why they have encryption as an option for the automatic install when it obviously can't handle it without manual partitioning.

Ahh well, hopefully someone on the mint forums knows a solution.

[Hanslanda]

heres a thing too that tips are considered an income and is taxed higher so tips are actually expected in our society and the government does acknowledge it.

Ooh yeah, forgot about that; thanks!
*Ahem*
Always tip in cash, folks. That way your serverperson can just stick it in their pocket and not worry about part of it vanishing to tax. A bit underhanded, yes, but like Hanslanda said: people working for tips generally need it.

That's illegal. Isn't it fascinating how avoiding the shitty system and trying to acquire a basic wage is ILLEGAL but the shitty system that forces people to try to cheat it isn't illegal? Weird.

[Hanslanda]

No, keeping all your tips and not declaring them is illegal. Tax evasion, you see.

[Frumple]

Mmhmm. Sure, chances of being caught are pretty slim, but if you end up getting audited? Enjoy the buggering. It's immensely easy to tell if you're not declaring you tips once they start going over your financial information.

S'kinda like how a lot of people don't, y'know, declare stuff like yard sales, just as an example. All of that? Taxable income.

The real fun thing is that even non-monetary exchanges count. You do someone a favor in exchange for a favor? Say, fix their car and they fix your wall or whatev'? You both just generated income. If you don't appropriately declare that, well...

[Lightningfalcon]

Around here some companies actually require that all tips are collected and then distributed evenly among all the employees.   

I would be raging about my English essay because of how much BS I have to go through to get it done but that time could be much better spent doing said BS. 

[smirk]

No, keeping all your tips and not declaring them is illegal. Tax evasion, you see.

Yup. Fun times!

Just to be clear for my new watch list: I'm advocating that people make it easier for their servers to break the law. In practice, servicepeople make so little that they'll never need to worry about IRS audits unless they're doing something like running a drug ring on the side, in which case unreported tips are the least of their problems.

[Willfor]

Around here some companies actually require that all tips are collected and then distributed evenly among all the employees.

Yeah, tips where I work are distributed evenly among everyone working at the time except the managers. Which means I actually get tips even though I don't work in the front, but in the kitchen.

But it's either because I live in Canada, or the fact that we have a great company policy, but I get minimum wage + tips instead of reduced minimum wage + tips. Hopefully the Harper government won't destroy this practice before they get ousted.

[Hanslanda]

At the restaurant I worked at, the servers got paid minimum wage as well as tips, but that is the only place for fifty miles that I know of that does that.

[Graknorke]

In America, many professions get vastly lower than minimum wage with the expectation that tips will cover most of their paycheck.

So what happens if the tips don't bring their earnings up to minimum wage? Does the employer have to pay the rest of what they should have?

No. The employee gets fucked out of being paid a decent wage. Tipping is important because some people LIVE off it. As Smirk said, it's a shitty system, but that's how it is. Not tipping doesn't make you some social revolutionary intent on writing the wrongs of the situation. It makes you an asshole that is screwing some poor single mother out of grocery money. I worked in a restaurant as a cook, and I can say that most people working for tips decidedly need the money really badly.

So the employer can get away with their employees receiving below minimum wage?
That sounds like a hideously broken system.

[Darvi]

Welcome to America.

[IronTomato]

Welcome to America.

Doesn't America practically run off of broken systems?

Yep.

Welcome to America.

[BlackFlyme]

Dumb-ass kids skipping school to play chicken across a major road. Public transportation rage! Yay!

Almost got smeared along the road by my bus today. The driver braked so hard that everyone practically went airborne for a split-second. Everyone standing found themselves face-first on the ground, and everyone sitting had either hit their head on the seat in front of them or off the window.

I was standing, and managed not to get thrown to the ground, but I think I wrenched my arm doing it. It still feels sore.

Even worse, those stupid kids were pointing and laughing at the bus while still standing in the middle of the road. Is it bad that I'm disappointed about them not getting hit?